Sparrow v. Swift v. Owl Sparrow: Large LoS Slow 400HP Swift: Decent LoS Fast + Boost Weapons 300HP PRESS G TO IGNORE MOST AIR DEFENSE Owl: Large LoS Radar Coverage Radar Jamming Faster than a Sparrow 2K HP 2.5 times more expensive I think I'm going to stick with swifts To make this thing even close to useful, I'd recommend giving it a personal cloak with a very large decloak radius.
+0 / -3
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quote:
I think I'm going to stick with swifts
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sure sparrow is crap if you replace swifts with it. completely other unit role.
+3 / -0
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Haven't tested the Sparrow, but I would count this as a raving review of a balanced unit(sight range 900).
+3 / -0
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Yeah this is one of those things thats hard to balance. We can all agree on one thing about the sparrow; its intended function is for 1v1 games where you won't start with an air fac. The sparrow isn't supposed to be as good as a swift or an owl, if anything, its supposed to act as an intermediary between the 2. But for these reasons, it falls short in the more active segment of the game, team games. There is always at least 1 air fac in a team game, which effectively nullifies the existence of the sparrow; why spend 175(assuming you built it out of a radar tower, if not, 120 metal) on a scout that'll be killed in a matter of seconds by AA or swifts; when you could either buy a swift, which can cover more ground, and even avoid most AA(Not to mention that its a good AA in itself), or an owl which can be kept far back enough for it to cover the front line, but be relatively safe, especially for the long term. The sparrow simply lacks any real outstanding ability to do its job. However, to build off of drascalicus's idea, I believe doing the following could be a unique twist for what it is: 1. Allow it to cloak when it lands on any surface. 2. When it lands on a surface, its LoS should transition to radar(around 1200 elo) If you really want a mobile radar, build an owl, it makes up in its cost just by existing, and your team mates will be much happier for it. The point of this is to distance the sparrow from the swift and owl, to let it become its own thing, rather than a bastard child of the 2. (these are here for the record) [Spoiler][Spoiler][Spoiler][Spoiler]
+0 / -0
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You forgot one important thing: Sparrow: - Does not reveal your air factory early on. - Spots air if intercepted. - May proc anti-air, even if you do not have an air factory. Swift: - Reveals your air factory during scouting run- Spots air if intercepted. - Will proc anti-air. Owl: - Reveals air factory, if spotted. - Spots air if intercepted. - Will proc anti-air. In terms of IW, I quite like the sparrow. You can psyops people into believing you're going to bomb their comms and watch as 900m worth of aa is produced when you don't even have an air factory. You also hide the fact you have an air factory, unlike swift. Often times you'll lose the swift to other swifts in enemy territory, so you're actually 10m up in attrition.
+4 / -0
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sparrow is a 1v1 unit whose whole point is to be buildable earlygame without having to switch to an airfac
+1 / -0
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also see sparrow as 1v1 fac scout rush unit, hoping for some use as front line scout for lances but gotta confess didnt test much yet
+0 / -0
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its better then quake misile
+9 / -0
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[Spoiler]quote:
Sparrow:
- Does not reveal your air factory early on.
- Spots air if intercepted.
- May proc anti-air, even if you do not have an air factory.
Swift:
- Reveals your air factory during scouting run
- Spots air if intercepted.
- Will proc anti-air.
Owl:
- Reveals air factory, if spotted.
- Spots air if intercepted.
- Will proc anti-air.
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If its a team game, the chances of the opponent scouting your factory with swifts is very likely and very common, though for 1v1s, I see the potential; it can trick your opponent into buying AA, assuming you just morphed a radar tower, but personally, i think this strategy has limited mileage, the moment your opponents start to make use of sparrows like you do, is the moment they don't spam AA, as they can check if you have an air fac, or a ground factory. It might be effective against lobsters, but anyone mildly competent would attempt the same thing. Sure it can spot air, but can it spot other air fac's? Not exactly. In a team game, a sparrow most likely will not scout half of your backline before swifts kill it, where as a swift can scout the backlines, and even come out alive. In a 1v1, either opponent may make use of a sparrow, which can quickly reveal both sides might not be using an air fac. quote:
sparrow is a 1v1 unit whose whole point is to be buildable earlygame without having to switch to an airfac |
I get the idea that the sparrow is for 1v1s, but thats situational, in any other circumstance, its not useful. So i ask, why does it have to be unique to 1v1s? Why can't it be useful in team games too?
+1 / -0
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quote:
in any other circumstance, its not useful [..]Why can't it be useful in team games too?
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did u test it as front line los scout for lances or snipers in clusterf*ck?
+0 / -0
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I've seen less people regarding Air Factory as mandatory in team games since Sparrow came out. Truth is while you can have a lot of impact on the entire battlefield with Air Factory, you can also find yourself unable to do anything due to heavy AA response. Other factories can have the same play style of helping wherever needed and "filling in the gaps", Air Factory just happens to be one of the fastest responders. Often when Air players have a lot of kill value it's from farming weak players who don't defend themselves from Raven.
+0 / -0
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In 1v1, I think the Sparrow completely changes up the first 5 minutes, becomes a good asset for minute 5 to 10, becomes expendable for minute 10 to 15 and useless after that. This is assuming you invest in an airswitch and ground based spotting. I'm not sure it'll be easy to balance it in a way that stops it from dominating early and being useless late. The comparison made here by   Drascalicus applies to the late game where it is indeed fairly pointless.
+1 / -0
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I think Sparrow is also really good in teams. Expectantly for some units like spotting for Lances + arty and even Grizzly.
+2 / -0
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I've used Sparrow for damn near everything by now. - Scouting while concealing existence of airlab . - Scouting without airlab, sometimes only plopping factory after scouting. - Spotting for Artillery (Envoys and Emissary, they should be even better for Lances). - Scouting for Antinuke (I kid you not, it worked. Ofc Swift would have been better for this, but u can make 7 Sparrow for the cost of Airfac alone). Sparrow is Crap? U gotta be shitting me. Its not gonna replace Swift for scouting or Owl for spotting, nope. But it does a pretty good job at both jobs.
+6 / -0
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mixed opinions.. sounds like some players have found it useful.. i just wish Djinn was cheaper anytime i try it it does less damage then making a Merlin but fails +50% without effect and enemy has reclaim.. it costs 1/2 a Merlin just to get a non combat element with elevated risk and high micro =/ Djinn need be cheaper
+1 / -0
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Most recent time I found good use for Djinn was on https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/707785 where I used it to teleport a massive shieldball to the enemy base multiple times. It was sufficiently epic. I used an owl and a Hercules to sneak it in behind enemy radar and lines then let the teleport rip and created my own front line. Overall though attacking the enemy from a direction where I have no retreat feels very bad often enough.
+0 / -0
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quote:
I'm not sure it'll be easy to balance it in a way that stops it from dominating early and being useless late. The comparison made here by USrankDrascalicus applies to the late game where it is indeed fairly pointless. |
I don't see a particular need for Sparrow to be good in the late game, as long as it fulfills its purpose for the game as a whole. A similar idea applies to some other common unit-balance comments. Phoenix and Raptor are not particularly strong units in a lot of situations, but they do fulfill a purpose (early game raider/skirmisher control and late-game air control respectively). [Spoiler]There is a case for buffing Raptor anyway though. In my experience with proper control it is not as bad a late-game unit as the forum might have you believe - but you can still often get by with the same cost in Swifts, and outside of a static late game Raptor gets absolutely pantsed by Swift. Similar comments might arguably also apply to Limpet, Ripper and Mistral. The other common reason why an apparently underpowered unit might not be buffed is that the game might frequently become degenerate if the unit in question was more cost-effective. The poster-child for this concept is Moderator. It may also apply to Racketeer, Dominatrix and Nimbus.
+0 / -0
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I've been talking to some people who think it is too powerful, but they've failed to make a thread or provide replays so far. The diversity of opinion is quite interesting, although it is to be expected for such a density-dependent unit. The big advantage of Sparrow is that it is accessible without a Plane Factory. If you have a Plane Factory on your team it won't be nearly as useful, but I did try to make it not strictly worse than any other option. There is potentially a role for Sparrow in providing frontline vision for much less cost than an Owl. It is also quite convenient to be able to make a scout while your Plane Factory is doing something else. Sparrow is a light scout so will likely be quite useless in the lategame. This is fine as not every unit has to be useful at all stages of the game. That said, I'm open to suggestions for abilities or tweaks that make it useful later without making it crazy OP early. Sparrow isn't just for 1v1, although it may have to be nerfed for 1v1 if the naysayers ever produce a thread with replays. Relatively small teamgames benefit from the additional scouting, giving the teams and option to not have an air player. Even larger teamgames often lack air players. Theoretically they should plop air, but in practise it doesn't happen. Here is an example: 
+0 / -0
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I haven't used this unit yet, but from the looks of it, it seems to be a good addition. Most of the complaints seem to be how air factory has better choices, but isn't that how its supposed to be? Its light scout plane, made by anyone. If it was better than what Air fac already has then it would need a change, as it sits I don't see any problems with it. It seems like it adds a lot to 1v1, small teams, and even huge games where theres 12v12 but somehow no air fac. I am happy with this addition, it adds a lot without being overpowered. If you have an air fac, you probably wont build it. If you don't have air fac, it can be a very useful utility unit. Easily countered by even small amounts of AA, or either air or gunships. It seems to be as balanced as anyone could reasonably hope for.
+0 / -0
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I think there is a not unreasonable case for making Sparrow die to a single Picket volley.
+5 / -0
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