Remove micro

[21:45] [GBC]Fred the micro and depth of possibilities within it are one of the greatest things about this game
[21:46] [GBC]Fred over the moronic SC2 style of play
[21:46] [GBC]Fred for example
[21:46] Vistritium hmm..
[21:46] Vistritium no
[21:46] [GBC]Fred You're saying that because you're incapable of that
[21:46] [GBC]Fred is what it is at its most basic
[21:46] [GBC]Fred Practice.
[21:47] Vistritium I dont like it
[21:47] Vistritium and what do you mean by "moronic SC2 style"
[21:47] [GBC]Fred I find what counts for micro in SC2 to be moronic and simple
[21:47] [GBC]Fred it lacks something
[21:47] Vistritium its about fast clicking, fast reaction
[21:48] Vistritium I dont like it, this is not strategy
[21:48] Vistritium I like everything slow, when u have time to think
[21:48] Vistritium and choose good reaction
[21:48] [GBC]Fred what you're after has a name
[21:48] [GBC]Fred turn based
[21:48] [GBC]Fred this is real time
[21:48] [GBC]Fred real time requires reactions to adapt to adverse conditions
[21:49] [GBC]Fred its part of how the game functions
[21:49] Vistritium NOTA is real time too, but its little micro in there
[21:49] [GBC]Fred same with bA
[21:49] Vistritium no
[21:49] [GBC]Fred because they are much larger scale
[21:49] Vistritium the reason why I like zero-k is fight command that micro for me
[21:49] Vistritium but it isnt good enough :<
[21:50] [GBC]Fred zk is scaled down, singular units holw greater importance
[21:50] Vistritium well, one of reasons P
[21:50] [GBC]Fred and therefore greater command over them is required to manage those assets
[21:50] [GBC]Fred effectively
[21:50] Vistritium but that was something that really got me here "finally I dont have to micro them and can do other things like managing whole army"

quote: Mindless micro can be automated, interesting micro stays.

Thissssssss. It's the thing that ZK "gets" and what so many other rts's/games in general don't.

Sounds like you want a serious 4x competitive game more than an RTS game.

I do think micro is deeper in sc2, most of the micro here is working around or abusing engine nuances. The whole shooting while moving is what removes most of the micro actually.

Most of the apm in sc2 goes into combating the restrictive UI. Though SC1 was worse in that regard.

Most of the micro in sc2 goes into stutterstepping, timing/positioning of spells, manual formations, moving drops, manual detonations and multiprong battles.

Most of the apm goes to spamclicking move/attack commands...

Licho - actually, the micro is the reason I can't really stand most strategy games anymore. I got into a strategy game kick on my DS a few years back and the late-game in Advanced Wars or Civ Revolutions is just nauseatingly tedious.

actualy lets just scrap the whole engine, we can play zk via paper & pencil

-There is limited time to give input to your game for both players.
-The faster player gives more input.
-ZK (and a lot of other RTSes) have unlimited potential for more commands to be given.

You can't have a real time game without micro :S

You can argue this game goes too fast though. So you slow it down to XTA's speed. What happens? You have more time on your hands! what do you use it for? Trying to dodge every individual projectile during the fights. XD

The designer needs to make sure that the most obvious and effective commands you can give to the game are interesting for the player. That there are real tactical and strategical choices to be made. This is unlike starcrafts' larvae mechanic, lack of formations etc etc (+all those things we love about Spring)
This "intersting to the player" part is, of course, subjective and the reason why we play a game or don't.

quote: SC1 was worse in that regard.

Und dann: inject larva, the reason why i don't play sc2. It's okay to have an imperfect (non-zk, if we wanna jab) interface, but demanding it in such underhanded ways is just a no-no.

Only been playing Total Annihilation and Starcraft since 1997 :D