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Another way to spend tech points

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12 years ago
Sometimes experienced ppl have lots of tech points to spent. But no way to use them. I propose the way. Ppl have favorite units, so if we allow to spend 1000 points for 10% upgrade in all parameters of the unit somebody likes, so we have endless tech tree !!!
Maybe spend it separatly for attack, defence and speed, what who prefer?
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12 years ago
The unlocks are not meant to give an edge. Someone with no unlocks can perfectly well use units to win a game.

If 1k points give 10% boost stackable, I want to trade in all my commander unlocks (and superweapon/mech unlocks too) and get glaives with the armour of Zeus... or brawlers with 1.5 HLT range. Or levelers with ravager's speed. (or, or, or...)
Totally broken and infeasible.

- Do. Not. Want. -


But then, I can rest assured that the devs would never ever do this.
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12 years ago
U cant get glaves to armor of zeus. Maybe 10% is too much. 1-5% is enough, its a matter of cost. But this way u do allow creative approach for the ppl, and many different variants for the tech developing. I dont think that, for example, banisher with 10-20% bonus to range and hp is much problem if costs 5000 tech or more. Or glaive with extra hp and range. Not much. And maybe not linear, i.e. first upgrade is cheap, but then for each level price increases.
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12 years ago
Problem with such buffs that that 1% can turn out to be very op sometimes. Imagine units previously outranged by the hlt suddenly outranging the hlt. Thats a huge and op difference.
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12 years ago
Extra power must always cost extra resources

It might be feasible to offer some kind of incremental upgrade which also costs resources in game, but this is what commander modules are for. Our problem is really that we made unlocks too cheap.

We're discussing longterm solutions to this problem at the moment.
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12 years ago
Upgrading commander is good, and not too cheap - because newb ppl get boring of getting something for too long time/ much effort. But this way u are doomed to invent new super-ultra modules or units to support tech tree. If u allow ppl to upgrade units they will first make good com its cheap and fun, and then, getting expirenced, think strategically and spend points for upgrading units. This is endless process, if something gets OP, then automatically ppl will upgrade the OP-killer unit. And it is no problem if the unit price will increase also.
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12 years ago
worst idea ever, it would break balance even 1-2% increases in things,
I would be OP at lvl60
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12 years ago
I could just say there is no way this would ever happen but I'll give some reasons.

XP cost =/= Ingame cost
I gave up explaining this one. It's just so evidently wrong for an RTS with any semblance of competitiveness.

Balance is nowhere near Linear
As others have stated Range is particularly non-linear. Also the Hp and Burst Damage relationships and Speed have clear cutoffs as well. Add to that things like the Square Law and nothing is linear.

The raiders apparently have the tightest balance to the point that a 10% buff to one of them would make it beat all others. In addition there is the issue of what to buff. There are a few dozen unit attributes that could be considered for buffing so how do you decide what to do?

I am also almost as opposed to unit upgrade for ingame cost for the above reasons (and more below).

A paid buff for a particular unit forces the player to further invest in that unit. It basically encourages single unit spam.

You may say the question of what to buff is simple; only reduce cost. Cost buffs are mostly linear and do not mess up unit interactions. To circumvent the single unit spam problem a buff could simply give you a small cost reduction to all units. This would give you a technology dimension of investment in the future.

The final step is to realise that a cost decrease for all units is functionally identical to an income increase. At this point there is no reason to add the only tech feature without the flaws of non-linear balance and single unit spam because it serves exactly the same strategic role as the Overdrive system implemented years ago.
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12 years ago
yeah I agree this is a bad idea

a much better idea would be to just add some more, grossly expensive com weapons to look forward to unlocking at v high levels - gear that is interesting and fun but not necessarily very powerful.
eg.
gravity weapon
felon-style weapon that requires personal shield module
module that causes commander to explode violently upon death.
combat engineer module (commander can build units like Athena)
nanite cloud (commander absorbs nearby wrecks to heal itself)
etc
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12 years ago
Another thing. All these discussions start with something that people seem to assume is an undisputed fact; that running out of things to unlock is a problem. What makes it a problem?
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12 years ago
lol ofc its a problem!

People love loot, people love rewards, people love unlocking things - its all about incentives, about blinging your boy. Think Diabolo II - you play to collect loot. imagine if 50% of the way through the game, loot drops stopped and you just kept your gear thereon. how many would still play the game to completion? not many. Or how many WoW players keep playing their lvl 80 character with all the best gear before starting a new one - not long.

Once the exp points you earn can no longer be used to buy things, they instantly become worthless and the incentive scheme ceases to function. Its a feeling similar to completing a game, or eating the last piece of cake. You always want more cake, you want the cake to last as long as possible, you always want there to be one last piece at the bottom of the tin to work toward.

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12 years ago
That's for RPGs where one of the main aims is character advancement.
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12 years ago
I think the point is, that right now, ZK isn't using the full potential of the unlock system. I agree with 1v0ry - this addictive "get moar stuffs" element dissipates somewhat fast, even though it could be extended for a much longer period.

More units could very well be locked (Sumo, Dante, Catapult, Tick, Roach, areacloakers, etc), and the XP cost of unlocks raised.
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12 years ago
Also the idea of having some really expensive unlocks is nice imo. Something that's xp cost is in the thousands. Would give something to grind towards, for those who like it.
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12 years ago
I agree with ivory king and antero.
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12 years ago
I will ultra-rage against anything that destroys the potential competitive nature of the game.

Not the nooby RPG-competitive where you get arbitrary bonuses for grinding hours. The true competitive nature of actually getting better at the game.

The last cake of the tin is the ladder.
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Skasi
12 years ago
The reason unlocks were implemented was to STOP NEWBIES FROM STARTING WITH DETRIMENTS AND SINGULARITIES BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE. This is the sole reason they are needed, not to make the game addicting.

There are other ways to do that: Constant updates, a ladder, but mostly team orientated gameplay, this is why PW was created. It has clans to make players drag one another back to ZK over and over, factions to add a "bigger cause" and give a player the feeling they play for more than winning single battles.

What's missing is something like politics, maybe linked with levels and ranks, which allows players to get more power over their clans, factions and ultimately the whole PW galaxy as they struggle to climb the greasy pole.


To me this thread is a misunderstanding.
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12 years ago
I would like it if the unlock system get's completely reworked in the opposite direction - less RPG-based.


I would appricate it if different hosts ( FFA, TEAM, ... ) have different unlocks.
Or at least would unlock some FFA-important units.


If someone builds a unit ingame, this unit should be unlocked for the whole team.

If one team makes the second or third unit of this type, it should be unlocked for everyone.

If newbes wait a moment to make their lab, they could get access to other stuff.

The most stupid thing is to lock the air lab.
We could lock the difficult spiders too - I hope you know what I want to say :P

We should auto-unlock some important things with level advancement.
Lab-specific units should be unlocked with XPs because of different favourised labs.

Com-Cassies should get a really high level requirement.

Disco-Rave-Party should be cheaper than Starlight, because you can blow up your whole base with Starlight.

Big Bertha should be much cheaper than Disco-Rave-Party, but in the same price range of Anni, and DDM.

In the most cases you don't need Bemoth. because you have Anni or Bertha - it should be really expensive.

Unlocks should close gaps where you have a unit behind that gap.
Other unlocks should be cheaper.
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USrankZag
12 years ago
I think it would be interesting to have a custom super unit that works like the com, unlock chassis, bonuses, weapons, etc. and each component costs a certain amount to build in battle. You could create a long list of components and make them expensive since it is not really needed to play or win and it would be built from the same place as the rest of the supers.
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12 years ago
Just do what Valve did with TF2: Hats.

Or more specifically, non-gameplay enhances to the game.

What about an unlock that makes your com shoot fireworks or do a taunt when they kill another com?

Or what about an unlock that makes beam laser purple or rainbow or glittery?

Or hats.

People love to grind for silly little upgrades like this that differentiate the look of their com vs. everyone else.
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