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Suggestion to a new game mechanic

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13 years ago
Hey guys, been a while, thought I'd stick my head in and give you an idea I came up with rather recently. I've been thinking over that people continuously spam one single unit in overwhelming numbers and it becomes too repetitive up to the point that can be overwhelmed. Through that style of play, every other play is wasted.

So here I propose to you the Morale Support Systemâ„¢

The Morale Support System is a game mechanic that operates on every movable unit which gain passive bonuses to other type of units around them. Let's make an example of the Instigator.

The Instigator is a raider, moderate damage, high speed, low defenses. Ceptable to a Riot unit, like a leveler. But say we added an assault unit to the group of the raider units. Those raider units would gain a small bonus of defense vs Riot Units.

How would this work with multiple units?

Say you got 12 Raider Units, and 6 Assault Units.
Each Assault Unit would grant a maximum of 50% damage reduction from Riot units to the Raider units. Shared.
So each of the 12 Raiders would gain 25% damage resistance to Riot Weapons.
All damage caps per unit would be capped off at 67%?
Ofcourse, these units would not give their own damage reduction bonus's to their own unit classification. Assault units will not get the bonus of other assault units etc.

If my info is not out of date, the rota for unit types goes as:
Assault > Riot > Raider > Skirmish > Assault

You could then later present an army of:
12 Raiders
6 Assault
8 Riot
4 Skirmishers
Which all gain an individual defense bonus against targets.

So we would have

12 Raiders would grant 600% sharable damage reduction against Skirmish Units.
6 Assault would grant 300% sharable damage reduction against Riot Units.
8 Riot Units would grant 400% sharable damage reduction against Raider Units
4 Skirmishers would grant 200% sharable damage reduction against Assault Units.

So the Units in this group would gain

Raider:
- 12.5% Damage reduction vs Riot Units per Unit
- 18.8% damage reduction vs Raider Units per Unit
- 7.7% damage reduction vs Skirmish Units per Unit

Assault:
- 43% damage reduction vs Assault Units per unit
- 18.8% damage reduction vs Raider Units per Unit
- 7.7% damage reduction vs Skirmish Units per Unit

Riot:
- 43% damage reduction vs Assault Units per unit
- 12.5% Damage reduction vs Riot Units per Unit
- 7.7% damage reduction vs Skirmish Units per Unit

Skirmish:
- 43% damage reduction vs Assault Units per Unit
- 12.5% Damage reduction vs Riot Units per Unit
- 18.8% damage reduction vs Raider Units per Unit


The Benefits:
The system would encourage further unit mixing and new strategic setups instead of relying on the same one or two units.
The units that are mostly neglected, will become relevant again.
This can be implimented in any lab, including Air and Naval.
This will make the RTS that bit more competitive when it involves more planning with Micromanage.

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13 years ago
Further More, Damage dealing bonuses can be implimented in the same way, that Assault units would gain a damage bonus against Raiders if a Riot unit is present.
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13 years ago
And obviously to prevent people from protecting their bonus giving units, they have to be within a certain distance to provide the bonus and in the same battlegroup.
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13 years ago
You got 12 Rocks and 6 Scissors, 4 Paper in your team.
Each Rock gives a bonus of 50% defense against Scissors shared to other units
Each Scissors gives a bonus of 50% defense against Paper shared to each unit
Each Paper gives a bonus of 50% defense against Rock shared to
each Unit
Each unit can only gain up to 67% bonus maximum to each different bonus type there is so there is no chance that a scissor can be immune to Rock damage.
So scissor can only obtain 67% damage reduction vs scissor and rock
Now 12 rocks will give a total of 600% sharable Scissor damage resistance to each Scissor and Paper, giving them 60% damage reduction vs Scissor Damage.

The 6 Scissors will give a total of 300% sharable paper damage resistance to each paper and rock, giving them 18.75% damage reduction vs Paper Damage
The 4 paper will give a total of 200% sharable Rock damage resistance to each Scissor and Rock, giving them 11.11% damage reduction vs Rock Damage
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13 years ago
Many may confuse that what would be the point in using a goliath over a Reaper.
Simple, the 50% defense bonus comes from it's own damage reduction vs particular weapon types

Say the damage reduction vs Riot Cannon is 300 on a Goliath and it's 180 on a reaper. The value of 150 from goliath and 90 from the reaper is what will be shared.
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13 years ago
1) Most players will normally have a correct mix of units
2) Players will also sit back and make a huge undefeatable army VS a aggressive opponent who a has a way weaker force
3) It will make Zero-k a much slower paced game :(
4) Some units have cross between classes
5) Air would kill everything XD
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13 years ago
Yeah dont like it at all, spam is controlabe, if the enemy uses only 1 kind of unit the you use the conter to that unit and its over. if spam alone can defeat you you dont need a new complicate system, what you need to to learn to play better.
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13 years ago
The idea still needs to be refined. Air has it's own classifications too. You got hybrids which could give half the bonuses of those classication. No army is undefeatable, let's put an example up

A goliath and a reaper would give their own damage bonuses. A goliath would give 50%, reaper would give 30% damage resistance against Riot units.

Those bonuses would be applied to Raider, Riot and skirmisher styled units.

Say you got one each, each of those units getting a bonus from 1 reaper would get 10% damage reduction against riot weapons.
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13 years ago
This won't be implemented. Just fyi. (I'm not the boss of these things but I just can't see it happening)

- unit mixing: how many various units do you want people to use all at once? 2 or 3 units working in synergy with one another is generally a nice mix, adding in more just makes them difficult to control.

- what units are neglected? all units are useful. name them and I can give you examples of proper use.

- implemented in any lab is not a benefit if the system provides nothing useful.

- how will it make the game more competitive? I'm completely dumbfounded at this last part.

I hate to pick apart your idea like that but none of this makes any sense at all to me. Whats the central purpose? How do you achieve that purpose by muddying the units' roles?

That said ZK is open source you can look at the game files and even implement your changes with a mutator if you want to see how your ideas play out. In fact I would suggest you try this as your ideas will grow and develop when you can actually see them in practice.
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13 years ago
The battle is not about crazy producing counter and counters...

Its boring like that...

Anyway, just comeback to take a look.
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Skasi
13 years ago
Oi a little sidenote:
Units can't simply be tagged with different "classes". The short descriptions you can see use these names only to support new players.

And raiders aint "moderate damage, high speed, low defenses", but more like "high damage, moderate speed, low defenses". Thah's totally off topic, still! :)
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13 years ago
We want people to make more than one unit because it is good to do so, because an organic system of counter mechanics requires a unit mix not because we force players to inflate thier unit count. If people are spamming just one unit, either the game is broken, or the enemy is not countering correctly. Even the most common and problematic types of unit spams right now (artillery, mostly, hammers and wolverines) still require riot units, raiders or static defenses for backup or they die easily to assualts or raiders.

We're really doing very well with unit diversity both with the kind of mixes that are fielded and the type of factories and units that are viable to use, when you compare us to games like BA (or even Starcraft, which might seem unfair because we have 10x the units, but we do manage to make them useful).
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13 years ago
Or some lazy like me, don't want to produce counter.
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Skasi
13 years ago
Saktoth, I've once been told not to compare anything with things worse, but only with better examples. :)

archl, you don't have to produce counters. Just build a bunch of different units you think your enemy can't counter ever and make them having to respond to your unit choice with frustration.
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13 years ago
Lazy people dont win computer games.
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13 years ago
Why do we have shield penetrating weapons at hovers ?
And why does the hover scout have such a low range ?

Because these hovers are really good against shield bots !
Why don't you take advantage of this by mixing the good hovers with your own shield bots and else ?

And the hover scout don't need buffs to kill the shielded thugs !

Anything what we need is a kind of research system to buff the weapons while let the HPs still remain the same value.

That would speed up the whole system !
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