I don't normally get pissed off enough about things to post about them here, but this one particularly ground my gears, so: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2014/03/what-world-vision-says-about-evangelical-priorities.htmlhttp://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2014/03/world-vision-reverses-course.htmlTL;DR: Christian aid organization World Vision announced a decision to allow employment of people in same-sex marriages. US evangelicals promptly threw a temper tantrum, forcing WV to retract its decision after just two days. Forgive me for the unfair generalization, but I need to vent: God damn religion.
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People don't need to declare they are gays or lesbian or have perverse sexual preference.
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quote:
People don't need to declare they are gays or lesbian or have perverse sexual preference. |
They definitely run all kinds of checks on their volunteers. It doesn't seem illogical to assume there's also some stipulated liability if you volunteer for them fraudulently (as in, lying about not being "some kind of pervert" while in fact you are Mr. Pedobear) - but i haven't found a sample of their volunteer agreement pdf to verify. So yeah, if you want to work for WV, you probably have to. Here's an extra funny one: quote:
World Vision U.S. is both an equal-opportunity employer and a faith-based religious organization. We conduct hiring without regard to race, color, ancestry, national origin, citizenship, age, sex, marital status, parental status, membership in any labor organization, political ideology, or disability of an otherwise-qualified individual. The status of World Vision U.S. as an equal-opportunity employer does not prevent the organization from hiring staff based on their religious beliefs so that all staff share the same religious commitment which is central to our mission. |
"We won't turn you down for all the above list A of things people generally discriminate against. We'll only discriminate on things from list B" hehehehe
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Wait, you mean a company is not supposed to have a right to give employment to whoever the fuck they want? You may cry discrimination as much as you want, but this discrimination usually has reasons. If a company unjustly discriminates against some people, it loses on potential good employees, which leads to worse profits. And lets be frank, a company doesnt give a shit about "discrimination" or "social justice" or "diversity". It cares about efficiency and profits. Oh wait, its a charity. So they arent even supposed to making any profits. And yet some people think they have a right to tell the charity how to run its business? What the fuck?
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Yeah! And black people, throw them out on the street they don't need jobs! Unless it's janitor, they should do those jobs. Profit motives will sort everything out, capitalism the great equalizer! It'll fix every inequality because PROFITS. @KingRaptor we have a lot of shall we say, people with unexamined opinions on here.
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There doesn't seem to be any mention about a gay/lesbian or any unconventional sexual orientated organization really want to join this WorldVision organization. There is also "request for criminal check exemption" in the link.
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You have no idea what WorldVision is do you xponen?
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No, why should we care? It doesn't involve us in a single bit.
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And black people, throw them out on the street they don't need jobs! |
How is it my responsibility as an employer to provide jobs to some specific demographic? I will provide jobs to whoever i find to be suited for that job, regardless of their race. And to assess who is suited, i am free to use whatever tools i have, including statistics. Yeah, there are exceptions to every stereotypes. Thats why i have interviews and give everyone a chance. People are not equal. Social groups are not equal. Trying to artificially enforce equality only results in subpar performance, especially since the institutions designed to enforce said "equality" are grossly incompetent. Yeah, it sucks to be a nigger. You are a part of a social group that has bad reputation. Unless proven otherwise, you will be assumed to be a typical representative of your social group. You will HAVE to prove you are competent. That's why people put on fancy suits when going on an interview - they want to appear as a part of a group that is known for competence and reliability.     Saktoth, i see you have an australian flag. Can you please describe the neighborhod you live in, from the racial standpoint? Is it perhaps an upper-class white neighborhood with very limited contact with your aboriginal comrades?
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   Yogzototh, if you think racial discrimination by employers is simply a matter of "oh, it just so happens that all these people of color coming in for interviews are less qualified than the white applicants (and I'm agnostic as to why that might be)," all I can say is you don't understand how discrimination works. quote:
People are not equal. Social groups are not equal. |
...therefore there's no point giving a shit about whatever injustices they face. Fuck you Jack, I got mine! quote:
Yeah, it sucks to be a [redacted]. You are a part of a social group that has bad reputation. Unless proven otherwise, you will be assumed to be a typical representative of your social group. You will HAVE to prove you are competent. |
"Oh, how awful it is that these blacks are negatively stereotyped! I guess I have no choice but to go along with assuming this specific black person matches said stereotypes instead of making an effort to properly evaluate them and their race." Yeah. No.
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it sucks to be a nigger |
Nah, in the lobby the only person with a nigger icon is always the most awesome dude around! quote:
Fuck you Jack, I got mine! |
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Please tell that to the HR managers who have to look through hundreds of resumes and assess each candidate based on very limited information. What it usually comes down to is "well i have these 3 candidates, and they are all roughly equal. If i had to pick one, i would pick the one who is the least likely have stuff i dont know about. The one with the best stereotype behind him. Like this white guy from a middle-class family, and not that black guy who might have gained his diploma simply because of affirmative action. Maybe he did not, but why take a risk?" quote:
you don't understand how discrimination works |
Oh, please do explain. Do you imagine it as some dude with a goatee laughing manically and giving salutes to Hitler as he writes off yet another black candidate?
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Haha, well I think Yog is firmly waving the whole racist flag, even dropping the n-bomb and everything. Bravo you're almost a caricature of your position! 'Well everyone is after profits in the end so that will sort out any discrimination! But people can't make decisions based on actual data they only have gross racist generalizations to go on so of course they'll use them!' I sense a contradiction. I'm glad you brought my personal experience into it! I happen to live in a neighbourhood which is almost entirely african muslim refugees. There are these huge commission flats, full almost entirely of africans. More of the shops along my local strip are owned and operated by africans and asians than europeans. I frequently walk past the flats to get to the train station. They have a huge soccer field, a school, a community centre, a community garden and the most awesome play equipment with a flying fox and climbing ropes and everything. I know living in these huge commission flats is hardly glamorous, but I really hope they're enjoying their life here and their kids are happy growing up in such an environment. I am proud of my country to think perhaps we can give this to them and proud to think those children are growing up to be Australians, that despite some of our racist policies by our conservative fruitloop government we actually take in a lot of immigrants and refugees because we're a desperately underpopulated country with lots of room for everyone. So lots of black people in your neighbourhood in Russia I take it?
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Oh wait, its a charity. So they arent even supposed to making any profits. And yet some people think they have a right to tell the charity how to run its business? What the fuck? |
I completely agreen with you there, Yogzototh! How dare these pesky religious freaks telling a charity what to do? Let's show them!
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Australia benefit from immigrant, for economic prosperity, for workforce :) Australia also have low population density. New immigrant are relocated to place that could benefit with extra workforce.
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that black guy who might have gained his diploma simply because of affirmative action. Maybe he did not, but why take a risk? |
The fact that people unthinkingly make assumptions (that are pretty much never fact-checked) like this is a problem in itself.quote:
Oh, please do explain. Do you imagine it as some dude with a goatee laughing manically and giving salutes to Hitler as he writes off yet another black candidate? |
Cute strawman. Unfortunately, it's still closer to the reality than what the notion of purely incidental discrimination that you didn't deny you hold. Here's a good example. Identical sets of resumes, except one set has obviously black names for the applicant and the other obviously white, sent to employers in Chicago and Boston, US. Fake applicants with white names get 50% more callbacks per application than fake applicants with black names; in fact, having a white name instead of a black one is worth as much as eight years of experience. Hey, it works with gender too!
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matches said stereotypes instead of making an effort to properly evaluate them and their race. |
Although I agree with what you're saying otherwise, I'm pretty sure one can never properly a evaluate a RACE. The whole point of not being racist is to evaluate an individual, as an individual, regardless of their race. Yogzototh I agree companies are well within their right to stereotype people, it's just lazy. Yes they might end up fine just going with stereotypes, but they could hurt themselves just as much. They could skip out on a perfect candidate because of a stereotype attached to him, and instead go with a less fit candidate because it's easier to judge a book by it's cover. The point is if they are a good company, they put the effort into finding a good candidate based on more than a couple of characteristics(race, color etc..). There is so many more things that make a person. If you notice two things and stop there, you are lazy. Good companies aren't lazy.
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We can't fix prejudice, unless there's a government quota or regulation that require you pick minority, or if you replace HR with robots.
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