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Quake missile cannot penetrate shield

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3 years ago
Even strength 1 shield will stop a quake missile, it should have at least some tolerance for shield penetration.
+4 / -0
I believe quake deals 20 damage, so a 1 HP shield would not block it
but if by strength 1 you mean ShieldInterceptType (or whatever it's called), all shield are type 3 (blocks type 1 and 2 weapons, quake is type 1)
it's really only a problem against singus and mohos, and i do think that if you can afford a shield array and terraform your structure should be safe from silos at the very least.
+0 / -0
3 years ago
I think he means a single stationary shield generator

You generally need to fire at least 1 emp missile in advance if you're trying to quake a shielded area, yes.

That was a big part of the reason why terraform castles used to be a pain in the dick, before the terraform nerf.

I think giving quakes some shield penetration/damage would be reasonable, given how niche they are. A terraform castle elaborate enough to warrant a quake will almost always include shielding.
+1 / -0
3 years ago
I think terraform castles are still Very Strong. What even is the escalation to defeat terraform when there's 5 funnelwebs plus some aspis worth of shield in a given spot? Berthas might work in sufficient number but at a certain point I feel like defense is a bit too multiplicative in the current environment.
+0 / -0
Doesn't EMP or widow [for the anti-nuke(s)] + trinity pretty much decimate castles? I have noticed hatched defenses survive trinity, and I disagree with that mechanic, but otherwise..
+0 / -0
Nuke only does 11.5k damage and can't even kill any other superweapon... Also funnel blocking nukes and surviving is a bit ridiculous.
+0 / -0
3 years ago
that seems like it could be solved by either allowing nuke to penetrate shields or upping the spash radius or the edge effectiveness of nuke

as for quake, it either needs shield penetration or it's damage needs to be upped to around 500 to allow it to penetrate an aegis grid that has been nuked. any higher would be probably too much, so i guess we should allow it to penetrate funnel shields (or only get blocked by agies/aspis) anyways.
+0 / -0
3 years ago
Quake missiles are strong...it's ok how they are. They are just meant to punish people who make defence spikes without shields.
Making quake penetrate shields will brake a lot of features like underground moho/protected singu and so on
+0 / -1
3 years ago
They don't have to penetrate all shields, penetrating just one shield would already make a world of difference.
+0 / -0
3 years ago
I'm not sure "penetrating just one shield" is a property that can be had with the current system. If a missile has damage with a face value higher than the current strength of a shield, then it passes through the shield without dealing any damage to the shield, or changing any of its own characteristics. So if a missile can pass through one Aegis, it will, given a balanced shield network, pass through any number of additional Aegis, too.
+0 / -0
If you want Quake to penetrate shields, you want it to do damage to shields.

If you want it to do damage to shields, you want it to do equal damage to units, or apply a status effect.

How much damage, or what status effect are you comfortable with granting to a 400m single-use unit ... with pinpoint accuracy and more range than Bertha?

I guess slow is an obvious choice of a status effect, with maybe 1k damage to shields.
+2 / -0
3 years ago
quote:
If you want Quake to penetrate shields, you want it to do damage to shields.

Does not follow.
+0 / -0
quote:
Does not follow.

It follows from consistency. There are two exceptions to shield penetration rules in ZK: Gravity weapons, and melee weapons. Quake is neither.

Everything else penetrates the shield by draining it.

Of course you could add a third special type of weapon and say that all seismic weapons penetrate shields. Does that mean that Detriment's green sidearm missile now also ignores Funnelweb shields?
+3 / -1
3 years ago
Detriment has nothing to do with quake, this is extremely dishonest.
+0 / -3
3 years ago
quote:
There are two exceptions to shield penetration rules in ZK: Gravity weapons, and melee weapons. Quake is neither.


Does Dominatrix not ignore shields too? (The wiki claims its weapon ignores shields but that could be wrong or outdated since the Domi rework)
+1 / -0


3 years ago
quote:
Does Dominatrix not ignore shields too? (The wiki claims its weapon ignores shields but that could be wrong or outdated since the Domi rework)

Fair point. I still feel that Quake makes for a really non-obvious exception, but it does look like there are a lot of these.
+1 / -0
3 years ago
I don't think its such a problem to create a special mechanic for a special unit, we already have a bunch of those. Gravity weapons ignore shields because it would be very easy to render them useless otherwise and allowing them to penetrate shields leads to more interesting strategies/counter-play. The same logic applies to quake: shield-bound quake has very little utility.

Quake could be given a damage type that only affects shields, maybe in the form of a "penetration charge" at the front so that it can pierce a shield and still go on to do its smoothing thing. I guess giving one damage type to one unit sounds dramatic, but a lot of existing units have similar things: dominatrix has a very particular damage type that is entirely exclusive to itself. Quake's proposed shield-buster is relatively simple in comparison.
+1 / -0


3 years ago
Gravity weapons and capture penetrate shields because hitting shields would either:
  • Do no damage, making Domi and Juggle extremely terrible against shields.
  • Deal damage, adding an unintentional extra use for Domi and Juggle. It would make particularly little sense for Domi to drain shields since its reload time is based on capturing units.

Quake deals a mix of normal damage and smoothing. A few other weapons (Tremor, Bertha) do the same. They all interact with shield sin the usual way. Requiring EMP to flatten an area under a shield is an intended part of missile silo interactions.
+0 / -0
3 years ago
I know its an intended interaction atm, it just feels like something of a non-decision. If A will almost always need B to be useful, why not attach A to B and eliminate one uninteresting decision?

At least in my personal experience, almost whenever I think of using a quake I quickly realize I will need an emp missile as well.

If nothing else, Quake could at least get a buff to its chip damage. 20 damage is just barely enough to let it plow through a fully depleted shield and nothing else, meaning a slight mis-timing will lead to failure, and weakening the shield by means other than a huge EMP blast is risky.

If it had something like 500 damage it would still be utterly inviable for use as an offensive weapon but would have a much larger window of opportunity for piercing weakened shields.
+1 / -0
AUrankAdminGoogleFrog you cannot emp the shield because there is terrain in the way. You cannot remove the terrain because there is shield in the way.

This could be solved without touching any damage values if tactical missiles had a straight top down trajectory above target, they are currently very easily blocked by terrain.
+0 / -0
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