I noticed this with Artemis and Strategic Nuke...you can't set a limit on the number of missiles they stockpile, well you can but it doesn't work, it does not adhere to any limit and stop producing. 2...The quantity amount is off, in 2 spots...it keeps incrementing when firing. So 1/100 qty...the weapon fires...then it says 0/101...and so on...it says that on the building, now if you select the building and check the qty in the button panel...the stockpile number will say instead...0/202 because it doubles...
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yeah imho 100 is too much to spend on idle missiles so i often try set it to like 20 but i believe as you mentioned it does make more then 20
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This behaviour is deliberate. There are a few options:
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Have structures come with no stockpile by default - The downside is they take an extra step to learn. In the meantime they look broken.
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Have structures come with stockpile, but do not increase it after creation - The downside is that after a lot of use the structure will appear to stop working after a time.
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Have structures come with stockpile and increase it whenever a missile is stocked - This requires the least knowledge to use. I think it is the current system, but I am not sure.
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Have structures come with stockpile and increase it whenever a missile is fired - I just thought of this, maybe it is similar enough to the current system while allowing a bit more power.
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So let me get this straight...you think that a feature toted in game like stockpile limiting. Because you have the option to set it, right? You think it's diliberate that it doesn't adhere to qty limits, that they coded to allow you to set? Whats the point if it doesn't adhere to a limit? Why allow players to set or change it? lol...also the qty amount being displayed is definitely a bug. The way it is, it IS broken. Not gamebreaking but still. I mean if there are different options hidden away somewhere to set how they work then please let us know.
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Where is the option to set whether they come with a stockpile or not? Anyways...hope it's something they fix.
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hmm i think 100 artemis missiles would = 108 by the time it empties.. and will cost 8,800 metal =/ thats insane costs.. 11,200 metal including base costs.. it does feel like its main role is to deter nuclear bombers and krows.. so it would be nice if it was possible to restrict it to max stockpile of 20 missiles.. when i tried to restrict it it created 30 before i noticed it cant be limited so im inclined to agree its not intuitive that setting a limit does not work nuclear silo 324,000 metal to fully stock would be a mistake to ever try to do this and its better to make a nuke silo a few nukes and 7 starlights O.o i tried to limit an artemis during a battle to 10/10 .. as it was full and i needed more metal.. after it shot it changed itself to 9/11 .. restocked to 11/11 and then shot again 10/12 and restocked to 12/12 .. > ect
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"Building needs ammo" is an easier concept to understand than "stockpile function doesn't work as one would expect for the sake of people who might not immediately realize that the building needs ammo" I'd say buildings should just start with a fixed, reasonable stockpile.
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IMHO i think that stockpile limits should not change its value. If i set it to 40 then it should remain 40 no matter how muchj missiles fired. I have seeen that strange thing but us i actively manage stockpiling things then it wasnt big problem for me. And i think that all stockpile can be set lower default values. Artemis could just be around 40 missiles and nuke smth like 5 missiles. I nver saw situation that aretmis had moree then 40 missiles. Maybe in chickens only. And nuke as well.
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Trinity and Artemis don't even work the same way! This is definitely multiple bugs. Here's how Trinity works. There are two numbers to keep track of: the number on the bottom panel, and the number appearing on the Trinity building.
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When the number in the bottom panel says (for example) 12/100, the number on the building would say 12/88. The panel number is (stockpile) / (max stockpile), and the building number is (stockpile) / (max stockpile - stockpile).
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When Trinity builds a missile, the bottom panel number increases to 13/100, and the number on the building changes to 13/87.
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When Trinity shoots a missile, the bottom panel number decreases to 12/99, and the number on the building changes to 12/87. In other words, it decreases both current stockpile and max stockpile by 1. This is wrong; it shouldn't be decreasing the max stockpile. That makes no sense.
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You can right click on the number in the bottom panel to decrease the max stockpile, and left click on the number in the bottom panel to increase it. This works correctly, in that when (stockpile) == (max stockpile), Trinity stops building missiles, and when (stockpile) < (max stockpile), Trinity resumes building missiles.
Here's how Artemis works.
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Just as with Trinity, the number in the bottom panel is (stockpile) / (max stockpile) and the number on the building is (stockpile) / (max stockpile - stockpile). Say the bottom panel number is 12/112, then the building number would be 12/100. The max stockpile in this case is 112.
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When Artemis builds a missile, both stockpile and max stockpile increase by 1. In this case the bottom panel number would increase to 13/113, and the building number would increase to 13/100. So there is always 100 remaining stockpile if you don't change it; that means Artemis never stops building missiles. This is wrong.
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When Artemis shoots a missile, stockpile decreases by 1, and max stockpile remains the same. So the numbers would change to 12/113 on the panel, and 12/101 on the building. This is correct.
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You can decrease the max stockpile by right clicking on the panel number (or shift+right clicking to decrease in increments of 5). If you decrease the max stockpile until it equals the stockpile, Artemis will correctly stop building missiles. If the max stockpile is any number greater than the stockpile, even if it's just 1 greater, Artemis will keep on building missiles and increasing the max stockpile forever.
Scylla and Reef work the same way as Trinity. So, these are the bugs:
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Trinity, Scylla, and Reef should not decrease the max stockpile value when they shoot a missile.
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Artemis should not increase the max stockpile value when it builds a missile.
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The numbers on the buildings should not be (stockpile) / (max stockpile - stockpile) because this is confusing to the user and inconsistent with the panel. They should be (stockpile) / (max stockpile), the same as the numbers on the panel and consistent with the usual meaning of "A/B".
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  MM_MasterMind the current system is the hardcoded engine system with minimal changes. The changes are in service to making it so that you don't need to know that the stockpile system exists to have functional structures. So if you build an Artemis it will keep shooting, not seemingly arbitrarily break after some time. I have forgotten the details since this has not been revisited in a while. I think the engine implements this behaviour:
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Units have a certain number of missiles stockpiled.
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Players can order units to produce additional missiles.
I think there were two bits of widgetry or gadgetry added onto this system gameside:
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Everything is told to make 100 missiles upon creation, because otherwise an Artemis or Trinity seem to be completely non-functional.
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Artemis is ordered to produce a missile every time it produces a missile. This is because it would sometimes burn through its 100 missiles and then appear to stop working.
 Berder technically there isn't a concept of max stockpile. Units just know how many missiles they have stored and how many additional missiles they have been told to produce. By coordinating interface and mechanics widgets/gadgets a consistent concept of max stockpile could be created, and seems like a decent solution to the problems here. The current widgets that interact with stockpile do not do this as they were written years ago to solve local problems. A Trinity that says 12/88 is saying that it has 12 missiles stored and it has orders to build 88 more. I don't know if it makes sense to say that there are bugs here. Bugs exist with reference to an expected behaviour or design goal. The only thing that could currently be called a goal is the desire for users to never encounter 'apparent bugs' that result from them not realising that the stockpile system exists - for it to work seamlessly in the background. There are minor bugs, such as one piece of the UI disagreeing with another piece, but I don't think that is what the thread is focusing on. Bringing about the concept of max stockpile sounds like a decent way to design a stockpile system that makes more sense. To people who don't know that stockpile exists, a stockpiling unit would never suddenly stop working. People who want to mess with the stockpile system would be able to set limits. This task would involve changing the values that are written in the UI and messing with the game widgetry that automatically tells units to stockpile additional missiles. It seems like it has a nice limited scope for anyone interested in developing. Here is a page: https://zero-k.info/mediawiki/index.php?title=Zero-K:Developing#Getting_sourcesTwo stretch goals could be:
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Add entries into the unit behaviour menu for setting the default stockpile maximum of newly constructed units.
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Allow stockpile maximum to go lower than the current stockpile. This is tricky because the number of missiles queued for construction cannot go below zero, so custom unit data would need to be added.
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This made no sense to me when i 1st saw it. That makes no sense to me today too. 1st number (at left side) should be the number of stockpiled missiles and 2nd number (at right side) should be the limit where production of new missiles stops. Unit should get some fixed (And changeable with unit configuration menu) limit, lets say 10. This way you don't need to set it each time, but units will always produce missiles to that limit and then stop to save on metal. I was 100% shure this is how it was intended and always thought that what we have in game now - most certainly a bug. This even looks stupid ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/432874986064052235/631663326207934494/SPOILER_1.PNGhttps://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/432874986064052235/631663319073161226/SPOILER_3.PNG
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GoogleFrog...I get what your saying...but it seems like your trying to dumb it down or outright say its non issue. Firstly I never said they were utterly broken or don't shoot. I wouldn't continue to play if that were the case. A system in place as is that allows you to change the number, is simply broken. You can't argue that. I've read so many forum posts where people say...oh you can save resources by stopping missile production. Sure I can lol...wether its hardcoded or not its simple math. Since the game is open source and code is easily accessible. Why not just intercept the numbers from the engine and fix them...should be possible coding wise, whether its hardcoded function or not. I'm a coder...i've worked around so many engine issues its not even funny. Bottom line dude long winded comments trying to rationize anything doesn't help the overall cause, saying it exists and IS an issue does, albeit a minimal non game breaking one but still(arguably immersion breaking). How long has this issue been in the game? Yah they all function and shoot, it's not game breaking, but...it does look like someone doesn't care enough about it to actually do anything about it. As for the changing of max stockpile...don't allow it to be set, simple as that. change the button from being functional in the units/buildings. Don't tell me u can't edit unit and buttons? Is that hardcoded too? lol...or fix it properly and have a new feature in the game stockpile limiting, which would be handy for people contrained by resources needing a quick bump.
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It's a free game, why sink any more time into it than you have to, if it works it works right. If there is anything I can do to help...maybe i'll sink some time into it.
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Thank you for sharing that Steel_Blue...
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MM_MasterMind I'm not rationalising or dumbing down the system, I am explaining why the system exists in its current form. You seem to have read me as saying: quote:
The current system is fine because it fulfills the basic task of making sure Artemis can always shoot. |
Whereas I am trying to say: quote:
Nobody had the time or inclination to do any further work on the system after the basic issue of making sure Artemis can always shoot was solved. |
quote:
Since the game is open source and code is easily accessible. Why not just intercept the numbers from the engine and fix them |
Exactly. quote:
it does look like someone doesn't care enough about it to actually do anything about it. |
Are you that someone? This task is sufficiently small and straightforward for me to wait and see if anyone else will do it. I can then do more pressing tasks, and having some contribute something makes them more likely to contribute something again. The "long winded" comments help this cause by explaining the history of the relevant bits of code, and the way that the widgets interact with the underlying engine system.
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Thank you GoogleFrog for the better explaination. If i come up with a solution or have any questions i'll let you know.
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Good work on the update GoogleFrog...everything seems to be working with stockpile now, numbers correct and stockpile limiting seems to be working good now.
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