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Remake the energy grid to move econ out of the back of bases

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5 years ago
I feel the energy grid is in a somewhat redundant spot currently, from a mechanical standpoint, in that its so easy and cheap to link that it becomes a no-brainer to just build all your econ in the back of your base and link mexes to it, which I feel is significantly less interesting than if players were encouraged to spread their econ over the map.

It also doesn't create interesting raiding opportunities because energy pylons are too cheap, spread too far apart, and explode too hard, which ironically tends to hurt the attackers more than the defenders. I never raid for pylons nor see anyone doing that. The brief interruption in the enemy's overdrive you might manage is not worth the attention cost and the metal cost of the raiding party, which you might have well lost in the explosion to boot.

I'd propose removing the "grid" aspect of the energy grid entirely, odd as it may sound. Instead give all mexes and energy-powered defenses their own unlinkable grid. They can pull energy from energy generation structures inside this individual grid only. This would force players to spread their energy production across the map for the best overdrive efficiency.

I'm thinking the range of these mex/weapon grids could be about the same as a current pylon, or slightly smaller. The idea is that the energy structure has to be near the mex/weapon, but not necessarily adjacent.

One might ask: "Why not just nerf pylons". Because that would make linking the grid more annoying than it currently is since you would need to use more solar/wind lines. Building energy near mexes isn't annoying, its just strategically complex.
+2 / -1

5 years ago
That would make singus entirely useless and fusions mostly useless. It'd also mean that building a desolator/lucifer/cerberus would require an extra dedicated 2000 metal investment that would be useless apart from powering the structure unless you stuck it right next to a mex. The diminishing returns from OD would make that suck even if you did build it right next to a mex.
+2 / -0

5 years ago
I also think pylons probably explode too hard, they often pay for themselves in enemy raiders
+5 / -0
5 years ago
Well, naturally some re-balancing of the game would be necessary. Energy dependent weapons would need to have their energy grid needs lowered. Maybe down to requiring one fusion to fire combined with a drop on their upfront cost.

Also the idea is that the grid range of individual mexes would be big enough that a central fusion could feed 2-3 if the're reasonably close, and a lot of maps group their mex spots.

Admittedly singularities as they currently are would be hard to justify under such a system. Then again they aren't used that much to begin with, as the're usually overkill plus its hard to find a spot to place them due to the boom boom.

There's always the possibility of making overdrive have a more generous curve now that it wouldn't be so easy to ship out energy to frontline mexes.
+0 / -0
5 years ago
singu is how you win the game
+0 / -0

5 years ago
"Then again they (Singus) aren't used that much to begin with, as the're usually overkill plus its hard to find a spot to place them due to the boom boom."

What maps are you playing? Singu is a staple for later games on bigger or at least metal-dense maps. E.g. Comet Catcher, Inculta, Desert Needle Small, Storm Siege...
+0 / -0


5 years ago
quote:
Also the idea is that the grid range of individual mexes would be big enough that a central fusion could feed 2-3 if the're reasonably close, and a lot of maps group their mex spots.
We thought about this sort of thing when initially designing the grid system, and ended up deciding that maps have too many minor variations for this to be balanced. Currently, a mex triple that is slightly more spread out may just mean you need to make an extra Windgen (or Pylon). If mexes can only be linked by Fusions (for example) then minor spacing differences can have drastic economic consequences.

I really like the simplicity of the current grid system. All you have to do is touch circles and it is gridded, done. That isn't to say that this is the only system.

I am not against thinking about the fundamentals of the grid system in principal, but so far we've only begun the discussion. More maths is required to know what is good. Here is an example.

Solars cost 70 metal and make 2 energy, Fusions cost 1000m and make +35e. Pylons cost 200 metal. Solars cost 35 m/e and Fusions cost 28.6 m/e. Now consider two different approaches to overdrive: either you Solar your mexes locally or make Fusions in your base and grid via Pylons. If you make one Pylon per Fusion then the efficiency of the Fusion strategy is 34.3 m/e, almost as bad as Solars. If you make more Pylons then it is much worse. Many situations like this need to be considered when redesigning the grid system.
+1 / -0
5 years ago
Fair enough, its true that small spacing differences could have really annoying consequences for the economy under such a system.

The problem I have with the current system is that it feels like the safety benefits of putting all your economy on the back of the base far outweighs the economic advantages of putting the economy near the mexes.

There might exist a time-window in the very early game where putting solars next to mexes is a significant economic advantage, but it feels like if such a time-window exists, it closes very quickly, and you can just use your starting mexes for that instead of any further out.

I feel the ideal would be if putting energy near mexes gave you some kind of continuous economic advantage, instead of just saving up on a one-time payment in pylons.

+0 / -0

5 years ago
The safety benefit of keeping your energy generation, isn't a problem, that is by design. You can choose cheap local energy structures or better remote energy structures. My only problem with the grid is that only mid sized static weapons require a grid connection and not super weapons like Bertha.
+0 / -0
5 years ago
Make an energy building that is fueled by robot suffering
+1 / -0

5 years ago
It might be interesting to make solar and wind lines more commonplace, maybe by slightly buffing their link range. That way they also interfere less with pathing.
+3 / -0
5 years ago
Part of the reason I like solar lines is to make infiltration difficult
+2 / -0
5 years ago
In the olden times the unit AI would auto target the most expensive thing in range and solars made effective defence because they cost 10 metal more than an LLT and sucked up the damage
+0 / -0