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Badgers and shields

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CArankGalamesh
5 years ago
(edited 5 years ago)
I had a conversation with a few players in game this week about using badgers vs shields.

Some players were suggesting that badgers are bad vs shields because the claw mines didn't explode and the bomblets could be killed by outlaws.

I retorted that mines instantly explode for the full damage of all the bomblets if they collide against shields before touching ground. I knew I had read that somewhere and from what I've seen, that's still how the game works so here's a wiki quote from the shield page:

quote:
Badgers deal damage to shields equal to the total damage of all the missiles shot by the mines they lay.


I think this is still true.

I also said that it is possible to kill the claw mines, but I don't think the bomblets can be killed. In other words you can potentially reveal and kill claw mines, but if they trigger they always deal damage. The wiki for the claw mine doesn't list an HP value for the bomblets.

Is this information still accurate?

Also, somebody suggested that claw mines cost energy (because of the cloak?). I don't think they do.
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USrankaeonios
5 years ago
Claw mines do not cost energy for their cloak (like fleas).

Claw mines do full damage to shields when a badger lands a direct hit on a shield.

Claw mines that are already spawned and buried pretty much get insta-killed by outlaws, but once the mine explodes its bomblets are a normal weapon and cannot be killed. Technically individual bomblet missiles can miss (much like with scalpels), but this is rare.
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DErankkatastrophe
5 years ago
(edited 5 years ago)
ok i was wrong.

Next Question: the latest change for badger doesn´t affect the impact-damage on shields, did it?

+0 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
5 years ago
(edited 5 years ago)
The latest change does not change behavior when impacting shields.

It changes behaviour when impacting units directly with the shell (especially statics): formerly sometimes the Claw would fail to spawn on direct hits, resulting in roughly 91% of total damage being lost.

[Spoiler]

This is no longer the case: direct hits now always spawn the Claw.
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GBrankdyth68
5 years ago
Badger spam now counters the entirety of spider fac and debateably shieldfac. It's kinda silly.

They can more or less only be killed by fast and tough raiders or invisible things.
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EErankAdminAnarchid
5 years ago
I severely doubt that any amount of Badger does anything to even a slightly elevated Crab.
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AUrankSmokeDragon
5 years ago
pray your enemy makes a badger ball.. its not the strongest ball
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CArankGalamesh
5 years ago
(edited 5 years ago)
No, but arguably the crab cannot move forward either because of the mines so the rovers can force a standstill. Then they can make impalers who can both significantly damage crabs and far outrange anything spiders have.

But that being said if there is a rover vs spider faceoff, somebody chose the wrong fac.
+1 / -0

DErankkatastrophe
5 years ago
badgers used to counter spiderfac already before, about shields i am only convinced when i see it. (wich does not mean that´s that not the case.)
it used to be that badgers were a pain for smaller shieldballs, but if those managed to grow they reached a state where they didn´t care at all anymore. i remember because i think i was one of the last players around that still used badgers until i gave up and just used cloaked roaches.
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CArankGalamesh
5 years ago
Badgers are another cheap unit. For artil they're really not worth much so that's another case where numbers matter.
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DErankkatastrophe
5 years ago
(edited 5 years ago)
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/778348?

that should solve that.
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CArankGalamesh
5 years ago
If you wanted to show what can hard stop a shield ball then it shows that badgers can't, but that's not quite a game.

The map is really narrow, seriously adventaging the shields because they can clump and that's when they shine. Rovers shine when they have lots of room to play with and counter raw strength with greater mobility. The point is the shield ball can't even catch up with the badgers at all given enough space.

Plus badgers are still artil. You generally don't just make artil without any kind of support. Replay that and get badger+farady vs whatever the shield can get. Not sure it's possible for shield to break that. How would they? Try to disarm all the faradays?
+0 / -0

USrankaeonios
5 years ago
Yeah unsupported badgers vs anything tend to be bad. Cost wise though a thug is 180 and a badger is 260. Badgers are good support for keeping shields drained and/or blasting a shieldball with aoe, but you need something else as primary damage.
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DErankkatastrophe
5 years ago
"but you need something else as primary damage."

hooray, someone got me.
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GBrankdyth68
5 years ago
Thugs have the best regen/cost rate in the game...
+2 / -0