Ever notice noobs that don't seem to understand how bad they are, even to the point of thinking they are better than most players?

I've seen players with 1300 Elo say things like "I don't do well in team games - I'm actually much better."

I've seen people build huge porc fortresses in their base game after game. They inevitably get crushed, but they die last and attribute their longevity to the "fact" that they were the best player on their team.

I've seen players with all units repeatedly complain that a certain unit is OP when used against them - yet when they use the exact same unit it is easily countered and they don't understand why.

I've heard players say that Elo means nothing in team games, regardless of the fact that the players with the highest win percentages also have the highest Elo ratings. Heck, that's basically what defines Elo in the first place.

I've dealt with players who fail in the same way over and over but refuse to change their strategy. It's like they have no ability to learn from trial-and-error. It's all error, no trial.

Anyways, there's a reason for this phenomenon. It's called the Dunning-Kruger effect. The gist of it is that when a person's skill at almost any task is low enough, they can no longer recognize that they are bad at that skill. They have such a low understanding of what it means to be "good" that they can't even recognize that they are bad.

In meme form: http://troll.me/what-if-im-retarded-but-everyone-is-playing-along-so-i-have-no-idea/

In the Dunning-Kruger studies, they tested people on 4 different subjects, showed them their scores, and asked the subjects to estimate their performance relative to their peers. Incompetent testers, scoring in the 12th percentile, actually estimated themselves as falling in the 62nd percentile. That's a huge difference! They weren't just slightly inflating their skill level - they moved themselves from "bottom of the bucket" to "better than average"!

It's not just limited to ZK - you'll see this in any form of online gaming. Less than a week ago I spoke on my experiences with noobs in World of Warcraft. I'm positive that many of the poor players I raided with fall into the range of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Anyways, this certainly doesn't solve any problems but it does explain why noobs consistently refuse to take advice because they "know they are right". They probably literally believe that they are better than average.

There is a flip side to the Dunning-Kruger Effect, that skilled people consistently underestimate themselves (Or, overestimate everyone else). Which means I must be REALLY amazing at this game (and everyone else is AWFUL).

MEH, as long as you have fun playing no matter what you do it is good. After all this is game, and if you lose it doesnt matter at all. If somebody dont like that you lose it is his problem. I had fun thats enough for me ;)

You are a peoples champ Antelope, thanks for putting into words what I rage the fuck out over every time I play :p

I like to teach newbies. No sarcasm, really.

But only if they want to be taught. Very few newbies ask for help, so sometimes I have to take the first step and give comments what they can improve on.

This means that we probably won't win the game, but that we might have a better chance the next match.


...Then again, I can rage pretty badly too. Especially if they're completely mute and don't respond to a single thing I say.

Yes see your arguments, but if you stay on
that "la la, I don’t listen to people" level,
you will not get better. But your reflection show me
that’s not the case for you. If more people reflect themselves we will
complain so much :).

on the other side most of the mid-good guys are to lazy to help noobs,
which is from my point of view bad. Or they trolling on them or what else.
But this push the "total" newbs away. They think its a bad and elitism game.

So my resume is that the newbs may read the manual at least one time and listen
more to better player. Also if English is not your language, you will get used
to the necessary words ;).
On the pro/”longer-playing-guys” side we should give more advise to them.
If they don’t listen it’s their fault. But with that we will catch more
players to Zero-K.

PS. sorry for my English ;)

Logikfreak

Antelope, is fine, but us are the exception here, usualy noobs don't want help because nobody wants to feel like a fool, and usualy too the skilled players dont want waste time with noobs. Is normal, i don't think that this will have a solution.

Be happy :D

yup will do this too :)

I give advice and usually continue no matter what.

If people appreciate my advice I continue.

If people ignore me I continue because they either did not read the chat (overwhelmed-busy-don't notice) or because they did not understand what I said, in which case using simple and different words (and drawing instead of talking) helps.

If people tell me to shut up, thinking they are doing fine and what I tell them is bad/wrong I continue because they need the help more than anyone else.

I don't think raging really qualifies as "advice", whatever the content.