This thread is for feedback for the following campaign missions, initially released Sunday 3 December 2017:
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Mstaras: Unlocks Gunship Plant, Wasp, Locust, Blastwing, Nimbus
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Prasten: Unlocks Gnat, Charon, Hercules
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Rasia: Unlocks Harpy, Revenant
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Rosnek: Unlocks Trident, Krow
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Bluebell: Unlocks Skuttle, Advanced Geothermal
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Deuliah: Unlocks Athena, Strider Hub
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Nullkodkas: Unlocks Firewalker, Jack
Useful feedback you can give us includes:
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Did you experience any technical difficulties? (If so, it would be great to get infolog, screenshots if appropriate, etc.)
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What difficulty level did you play the mission on? (The options are Easy, Normal, Hard and Brutal.)
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How difficult did you find the mission? (On a scale of 1-10 or something.)
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Were the optional objectives all too easy? Too hard? (The aim is for each mission to have some easier and some harder ones.)
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What were your biggest challenges in completing the mission?
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Were the main objectives, optional objectives, and hints clear? Were they useful?
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How enjoyable was the mission? (On a scale of 1-10 or something.)
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Any other specific feedback about the mission.
Other Feedback Threads[Spoiler]
+2 / -0
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Mistaras: A-move trollcom into enemy base, easy at this level. Prasten: Failed the bonus objective because factory got captured by the domi spam before commander was. Rasia: Killed factory at 3 minutes with stealth com, farmed 10 chicken kills at minute 10, then found the enemy commander at minute 8 and locusted it to death. Bonus objective "Kill enemy commander before 10 minutes" did not clear despite.
+0 / -0
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quote: found the enemy commander at minute 8 and locusted it to death. Bonus objective "Kill enemy commander before 10 minutes" did not clear despite. |
I cannot reproduce this, can you send infolog/screenshot?
+0 / -0
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Playing everything on normal difficulty. Edit: I never adapted the com to circumstances so he's just a Jack of all trades. Mstaras: walked into enemy base with com and won. Um okay. Difficulty: 0 Prasten: Neat. Having an excuse to use transport is good. I dont know if it was intented that one combine transport and fleas specifically with dominator, if so that could have been made clearer. Scenario did little to show off gnats. Difficulty: 5 Rasia: Fights that arent just 1v1 are always more fun. Not sure the "harpy" got the best chance to shine here. I only won on my first try by switching to glaives as the enemy purely made aa and buoys. Did not feel the need for revenant. Difficulty: 5 Rosnek: Tight objectives, does not leave much room to dick around, I thought that was good. Enemy has so much aa that it seemed easier to switch to land based fac though, so my own crow wasnt much of a gamechanger. Restarted a couple of times to get the bonus objectives. Difficulty: 4 Bluebell: Then there's this fucker. At first I thought it was brilliant as I felt like I HAD to use skuttles, but I quickly realized that the onslaught of heavy shit required me to go for some much more efficient and less micro heavy unit, that or clever terraforming. Went for sniper. It's good design that Prasten is before bluebell as backdooring the geos with ferried over skuttles is a very valid tactic, not that you are given a hint about it though. Difficulty: 8 but was quite fun Nullkodkas: Getting tastes of grander battles is pretty neat. The point may have been to support your ally so that he could break through? But with access to jacks I just did that myself somewhere and ate them from within. Beat it maybe in half the bonus objective time. Difficulty: 2. I am not sure how one would lose here besides com suicide, which I did. Deuliah: This was really fun and was a nice change of gameplay, pluss having "automated" foes felt more fun. There could be some sweet lore built here. I was confused at first and thought the big factories were what I was suppose to convert. Difficulty between going for bonus objectives and not is huge. It's a shame there's no tutorial for ferrying as it's useful for the dantes you produce on the hill. First battle I've replayed after completing as bonus objectives change gameplay radically. Difficulty: 2/6 depending on if you care about objectives. Not sure if you can lose here though.
+0 / -0
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quote: I cannot reproduce this, can you send infolog/screenshot? |
Infolog is by now overwritten times over, but i think i should be able to find the replay. Yup, here it is.
+0 / -0
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Are your old infologs not saved in the "log" folder?
+0 / -0
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Hm, possibly they are. Will check when i get back home if that's necessary; i suspect replay should be sufficient.
+0 / -0
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I'm seeing a lot of objectives I'm completing/failing not getting ticked off at all by game end. All the latest missions I've played are really fun, good job. EDIT: I lost Deuliah because I lost that one commander that your could resurrect on the battlefield. Shouldn't that only happen if I lose all my commanders?
+1 / -0
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quote: EDIT: I lost Deuliah because I lost that one commander that your could resurrect on the battlefield. Shouldn't that only happen if I lose all my commanders? |
That's weird - as I understand it the objective is always "don't lose your original knightcomm". If by "that com you could resurrect on the battlefield" you mean "the com that originally belonged to the red AI but got blown up by a Detriment" then I suspect it's a bug caused by how the red AI's loss-condition is calculated.
+0 / -0
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I finally beat the Skuttle mission on Hard. On Normal, i could just blow up whatever the AI sent my way, kill Reapers with my oversized commander, etc. On Hard, i couldn't produce skuttles fast enough to blow up everything that came my way, so i had to massively abuse access to Valkyries and quickly blow up the geos before being overrun. I did manage to get the AI commander though, and the time bonus objective was a necessity. Getting to the strider hub felt barely possible.
+0 / -0
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Deuliah: U can lose the game, if you rez enemy com and it gets killed.(IMO should not be problem as long as your main com lives). Also really wonder if anyone have beaten that in time without factory.
+0 / -0
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Nullkodkas (hard): Tried the recommended strategy of spamming firewalker, but it was too slow, so i couln't hope to do the other two bonus objectives. Sneaking onto factory with Scythes caused lots of crap to land to protect it, wtf. Tried once again, doing a few dantes after the obligatory firewalkers, but they did nothing, and firewalker spam failed to contain ai spam. Then i just made a domi shieldball (in the same game, after giving up on dantes) and capped everything top to bottom in several minutes.
+0 / -0
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First post. Much praise for Zero-K and in particular the excellence of the AI. Have been enjoying the campaign scenarios immensely. The whole campaign concept is wonderful. Most scenarios begin with a short message to the effect that unit X is great for Y and this can be used effectively for winning scenario Z. For a novice Zero-K player much of the enjoyment of the game comes from figuring out the detailed mechanics of exactly how to use X to accomplish Y, but sometimes we fail abysmally in figuring out those details and then scenario Z becomes very discouraging and frustrating and we start wondering why we are spending time playing a game that we are not enjoying. Instead of cluttering the campaign with more detailed information that will only annoy most players, consider setting up a specific web page for each individual scenario where players who find themselves stumped by a particular scenario can go and share experiences and insights that would provided the sort of detailed information about how to use X to do Y that players need but have failed to pick up by their own attempts at playing the scenario. Human nature being what it is, maybe there needs to be a second web page for each scenario where the worlds best Zero-K players can go to complain about how trivial and boring the scenario is and how quickly they won it with all bonuses on “brutal” without lowering the prestige of their boasts by explicitly mentioning any of those menial details that they mastered long ago about how exactly it is that X is used to do Y.
+3 / -0
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gsjb sounds like you are suggesting a walkthrough. Those are usually made by fans, so I'd expect somebody to make one sooner or later. Otherwise the wiki should be a great place for detailed mission information, including a short guide on how to win them. We'll just need to find a volunteer.. I'm actually really liking the difficulty spread of the campaign: Even a complete RTS newbie should be able to beat Easy while Brutal is a hard nut to crack for even the best players. All this while keeping the missions the same for all difficulties. I'm just trying to help point out which ones still need adjustment. I'd hope for some players to do the same for Easy, because that's probably the hardest one to get right.
+0 / -0
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- Mstaras (Easy): [Spoiler]By far one of the easiest missions I've encountered, with some likewise-easy bonus objectives, which I believe is a bonus when introducing the basics of gunships. (Plus it was a refreshing breather after dealing with the major warzone that was Bavhakya.) While I did feel that the mission showcased the Locust well (with having to take advantage of their regenerative abilities and surprisingly-durable tankiness to perform hit-and-run attacks against enemy infrastructure, which allowed them to take on Vandals and Lotuses, and gave them ample time to escape from Razors if they strayed too close), sadly, I don't think it did enough justice at showcasing how effective Blastwings or Nimbuses could be under the right circumstances. In fact, despite the presence of Hacksaws and Razors to punish any aircraft that came too close, I could probably beat this mission in under 10 minutes (which I did in about 8 minutes), even without building any Nimbuses or Blastwings (which I did, with the Blastwings doing some scouting to identify enemy radar blips, and the Nimbuses cleaning up the enemy's base). - Prasten (Easy): [Spoiler]Sadly, I didn't find the smaller Charon transports to be all that useful for this mission, as once my starting forces had secured a beachhead on the main island, I plopped down my starting factory, and proceeded to expand from there, negating the need to continuously ferry forces from island to island. (Maybe the Charons would get more use if the map was more like an archipelago, with anti-air turrets deterring attacks from gunships?) On the other hand, I did find a considerable use for the Gnats and Hercules transport, as the Gnats allowed me to paralyze the enemy commander long enough for me to send the Hercules dropship to abduct him, and send him over to some Dominatrices to net me that objective (though I had to be careful not to kill the enemy commander with my Fencers). Overall, another relaxingly-easy level, in which I managed to build a Geothermal Generator in about 7 minutes. - Rasia (Easy): [Spoiler]Knowing the kind of threat that Chickens can pose, I decided to try the same trick that I did in Vis Ragstrom, and that was to terraform some ditches to block the Chickens' passage towards my economic assets. However, it turns out the Chicken menace here wasn't as menacing as I thought it'd be, as I had little problems clearing out their roosts with Locusts for the most part (though I put the starting Harpies to use there as well). What was more difficult for me was taking out the enemy commander in time, since I barely managed to take out 10 roosts and the commander before 10 minutes passed (with me having to sacrifice many of my Locusts to get the job done). From there, it was just cleaning out the enemy base with Nimbuses, while fending off the Chicken "hordes".
Unfortunately, and needless to say, but neither the Harpies nor the Revenant saw any major use in this mission, as there didn't seem to be any significant need for either of them compared to using Locusts or Nimbuses. There weren't clusters of enemy units or structures that demanded use of the Revenant's aoe bombardment capabilities, nor were the Harpies' slowing missiles greatly needed to support other units in dealing with enemies. The mission simply never progressed to the point where either was really needed. - Rosnek (Easy): [Spoiler]Another heated battle like Bavhakya, only this time, the bonus objectives were pretty easy to accomplish. My starting force of 2 Harpies, 2 Tridents, and a Nimbus was enough to take out the enemy Krow in under 5 minutes (though it almost escaped), while after building a couple Caretakers, I was able to build my own Krow (which was the 1st thing on queue) in under 5 minutes as well. Like with the Dante, while I could use the Krow's heavy armor to break through moderately-defended enemy lines, I needed to be careful not to lose them, as they're very expensive.
As for the Tridents, I probably could've completed this mission without building any, as they seemed largely unimportant for this mission. If this were a pure air vs air mission, then perhaps I'd consider them? The reason why I say that is because, when dealing with both air and ground forces, I tend to prefer more multi-role units that could attack both ground and air units, such as Locusts, Harpies, and Nimbuses. Speaking of Locusts, if I don't have Tridents of my own, I'd probably use Locusts to try to counter enemy Tridents due to their much faster speed, whereas I find that my Nimbuses could also put up a decent fight against Tridents.
So yeah, if you wanted to showcase the Trident's usefulness, then perhaps it's best to do so on a pure air vs air mission. The Krow could still be showcased well on such a map, in that it could be used to clear out enemy anti-air emplacements that block your way to the enemy base, or bombard waves of enemy troops that are assaulting an allied base across a river and steep canyon. (Take a look at such air vs air maps in Supreme Commander 2 as Corvana Chasm for example.) - Deuliah (Easy): [Spoiler]Now this is a mission concept I'd get excited by, in that you need to stay on the move whilst building up your forces. Only I didn't have to stay on the move, as there was no way that the enemy could reach my position, and even if they could, a little terraforming would've fixed that. Anyways, seeing as how the Detriment was this towering juggernaut of death that would eat Dantes for breakfast, I looked back to how I defeated a certain other towering juggernaut of death called the Core Defender, which I had to fight back when I played "Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun: Firestorm", and just as I had spammed dozens, if not hundreds, of cheap infantry to defeat the Core Defender, I had the bright idea of using the Athenas to spam hundreds of the single cheapest, most brittle, and most expendable unit in the game, which would be Fleas, and use them to take out the Detriment. However, my Fleas died faster than I thought, as while the Detriment possessed gauss guns that could make short work of lines of enemy units, what might've caused my Fleas to die more quickly than expected were the explosions that Fleas created when they die. It might've costed me over 800 Fleas, but after 2 failed attempts, I just barely managed to take out the Detriment on my 3rd attempt before 20 minutes passed. (By contrast, I was easily able to take out the enemy factories before 10 minutes passed just with the Hermits that could be resurrected south of the starting base.) Update: I just replayed this mission, and decided to pit 6 Dantes (which is one Dante's worth of metal shy of the amount of metal needed to build a Detriment) against the Detriment. While they were able to bring down the Detriment, only 1 Dante survived, partially because the Detriment wisely tried to keep as far away from the Dantes as possible before they could catch up to the Detriment. Given how much metal was spent building the Dantes, I think it was more cost effective of me to pit hundreds of Fleas against the Detriment. I believe at least 600 Fleas, which cost only half as much as a Detriment, could've taken down a Detriment.
+0 / -0
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when I did that mission I had a pretty mixed army but mainly dantes, but I attack the detri from all sides which allowed my dantes to get up real close and deal lots of damage, pluss the detris gauss cannons couldn't hurt multiple dantes at a time.
+0 / -0
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- Nullkodkas (Easy): [Spoiler]I had originally been putting off this mission until I could unlock the Jumpbot Factory, but after dealing with cloaked Scorpions and Phantoms at Romolis, I felt ready to tackle this mission as well. I had originally presumed that I would be facing off against enemy Phantoms at Nullkodkas as well, but as soon as I entered the mission, and as soon as I was told that the enemy was using Irises to cloak their forces, which would've made my initial plan to build masses of Fleas for the purposes of revealing cloaked units pointless, I changed strategies, and sought to focus on building Dantes, supplemented by Knights, Aegis, and Irises of my own that were being built by an Athena, all so that I could beat them at their own close-quarters game. (That and keep building Fusion Reactors at the back of our base to overdrive our team's mexes some more.) While I would still build the required amount of Firewalkers to meet the bonus objective, I didn't think they would be used very well for this mission... until I saw the Firewalkers in action that is.
Turns out the Firewalkers were far more useful for this mission than I had thought they would've been, as the enemy forces, despite being hidden by Irises, were giving themselves away by attacking the frontlines as soon as they were in range, which proved very counterproductive for the enemy Irises, as my Firewalkers, which were set to fire-at-will mode, could saturate pretty large areas with napalm, revealing any enemy forces which were dumb enough to walk across the burning puddles of fiery death. So effective were the Firewalkers that I then ordered my Jumpbot Factory to produce nothing but Firewalkers, and sent all my Firewalkers to lay siege to the enemy's frontlines while my assaulting force of Dantes, Knights, and Jacks pushed through the south, then proceeded to obliterate the enemy's bases from the inside-out. I was able to finish the mission in less than 12 minutes, and this is also including the fact that I manage to destroy 3 enemy factories before destroying the enemy Warp Jammers.
As for the Jacks that were also introduced in this mission, unfortunately, while they did provide some help in taking down enemy defenses alongside the Dantes and Knights, they weren't all that useful for this mission, especially compared to the Firewalkers and Dantes that I was building. Unfortunately for the Jacks, the map lacked terrain features, such as steep cliffs overlooking rivers, which would've required the usage of Jacks, which could use their jumpjets to infiltrate the enemy base by jumping across the cliffs and rivers. - Bluebell (Easy): [Spoiler]Although this mission started off promising, with having to use Skuttles to sneak past enemy defenses and destroy the enemy Geothermal Generators, Strider Hub, and Commander, and although the beginning parts were going well enough, with me destroying the 1st Geothermal Generator and Strider Hub not long after starting the mission, unfortunately, I suffered from so many setbacks with using the Skuttles (most notably being unexpectedly shot at by Stingers that I didn't know could hit them from what I thought to be a safe location), and my forces were being attacked so often by forces that the Skuttles were having so much trouble dealing with (particularly because of the Skuttles' painful combination of slow speed, low health, high cost, huge decloak radius, and needing to be next to enemies in order to deal the maximum of 8000 damage), that I ended up resorting to the use of more reliable Phantom and Dante spam, which ended up taking me 24 minutes to finish the blasted mission. What's worse, much of that time was spent on a wild goose chase trying to hunt down the enemy commander before destroying the 3rd Geothermal Generator, with seeing one of my Dantes getting pushed back by a Newton being a runner-up.
Yeah, this wasn't a fun mission to showcase the Skuttle.
If I wanted to showcase the Skuttle better, in a more fun way, I'd want there to be an allied player fighting alongside the player, drawing much of the enemy's attention away from the player, so that the player can better focus on using Skuttles to, say, infiltrate past enemy defenses and destroy objectives within the enemy base (such as Strider Hubs, or a superweapon like the Big Bertha, which we used Scythes to destroy on Thibella), or destroy enemy Paladins or Merlins that are giving the player's team headaches (like in Romolis).
+0 / -0
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Sounds like my experience with Bluebell. It's got significantly easier once I realized I could transport skuttles around the edge of the map into the enemy bases allowing you to take all the geos within the first few minutes
+0 / -0
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Rasia crashes while loading on my Ubuntu 18.04, both nVidia and Intel graphics.
+0 / -0
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