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I thought we got new eco

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9 years ago
some games ago. player had 8 singus 1600 energy income and all other players from team around 40...
same with metal: 70 metal for the singu player and ~ 22 for other players.

Wasn't it changed?
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9 years ago
Nope.
The overdrive was just nerfed. Communism wasn't enforced.
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9 years ago
well seems like I wasn't wrong. since other people build singus and whole team got more..
but when one person builds singus it seems like only him gets the overdrive :p
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9 years ago
Relevant recent changes:

High OD (>7 energy per mex) is less efficient than before.
Being the sole energy contributor now gives you x0.33 of all OD metal, previously x0.5.
Energy structures are now repaid at x0.5 value, from x1.
Mexes now have a fixed x1.33 return instead of x[mexspot value].
A RoI Tracker widget now exists.
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Skasi
quote:
Being the sole energy contributor now gives you x0.33 of all OD metal, previously x0.5.

PLrankAdminSprung, so in a 2v2 being the sole energy contributor gives me 33% and my ally 67% of OD metal? Conspiracy! :P


quote:
but when one person builds singus it seems like only him gets the overdrive

DErankChesti, note that this effect is much larger in large team games. 50% and 33% of all OD metal can be much more in 20v20s than in a 2v2. Provided my expectations for how OD works are correct, here are some examples:

20v20, I have a singu, teammates have 0 energy
I get 33% of overdrive metal, everyone each gets 67%/20 = 3.5%
Thus I get 36.5%, while others each get 3.5%, difference ~10x

2v2, I have a singu, teammate has 0 energy
I get 33%, everyone each gets 67%/2 = 33.5%
Thus I get 66.5%, ally gets 33.5%, difference ~2x
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9 years ago
OD still feels too powerful. Games are very porcy.
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FIrankFFC
9 years ago
Wait. So if i eco i get less metal?
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No.

What PLrankAdminSprung should've said was "being the sole energy contributor reserves 33% of OD to you (with the rest being split evenly)".

In a 2 player team you get 33% + 66% / 2

66% and your teammate gets 66% / 2

33%. (Yes, the 1% is sacrificed.)
Or, more generally, eco-whore gets 1 / 3 + 2 / 3n and everyone else gets 2 / 3n of OD with n being the amount of players.

Therefore, in DErankChesti's game 2 / 3n of OD was 22 m and 1/3 of it was 48 m. Total OD was consequently 144, so there were 4.4 players in the team.


(By "2 / 3n" I mean "2 / (3n)".)
+1 / -0
FIrankFFC
9 years ago
Bu...where that 1% goes...
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@[ffc]killer
quote:
Wait. So if i eco i get less metal?

to rephrase: if you do pure eco you get more metal, because you get 33% of ALL overdrive.

2 player team OD = you get 33% of OD + player 2 gets 66% of OD
3 player team OD = you get 33% of OD + player 2 gets 33% of OD + player 3 gets 33% OD
4 player team OD = you get 33% of OD + player 2 gets 16% of OD + player 3 gets 16% of OD + player 4 gets 16% of OD
5 player team OD = you get 33% of OD + player 2 gets 8% of OD + player 3 gets 8% of OD + player 4 gets 8% of OD + player 5 gets 8% of OD
etc...
+0 / -4
quote:
20v20, I have a singu, teammates have 0 energy
I get 33% of overdrive metal, everyone each gets 67%/20 = 3.5%
Thus I get 36.5%, while others each get 3.5%, difference ~10x


Given that this is the size teamgames often take, eco is still mad skewed to reward just sitting at the back making singu, before you even consider the 50% payback.
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9 years ago
USrankAutoWar, that's wrong.
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9 years ago
quote:
Bu...where that 1% goes...

taxes
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9 years ago
taxes? are you some big fishy coperate?

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The "being the sole energy contributor" was somewhat misleading (but that's what the commit log said). The 0.33 privatized OD share is the theoretical max, but in practice it is almost never reached.

Each energy structure is assigned its OD contribution. This is proportionate to its E income. For example, if all the team's energy is a fusion (+35) and a geo (+25), and the OD is +12m, then the fusion is "responsible" for +7m and the geo for +5m. When freshly made, they claim 0.33 of that income. This goes down to 0.1 when they're almost fully but not yet repaid, and after that it jumps to 0. The reduction is not linear either. It depends on how much was already repaid: 0.35 - 0.25*repaid (capped at 0.33).

For example let's say the Fusion has just been made and the geo was already 80% repaid. The fusion owner gets 0.33*7

2.33 and the geo owner gets (0.35 - 0.25*0.8)*5

0.75. The total private share is 3.08 metal (and not 0.33*12 = 4). As energy gets repaid, the actual private share decreases because many generators start having 0 payback.

[Spoiler]
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9 years ago
quote:
At least that is how it's supposed to work. I'm pretty sure a wrong variable is used which inflates the private shares.
Why is that?
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The variable that counts the total incomes does not use pure income. It uses income minus "lastTeamNe" and lastTeamNe is, among others, the energy that goes into OD (the other uses are legit because they are to cancel fake income from the forced tax).

The gadget is super messy so it might be the case that this cancels out somehow. When I get some free time I might investigate more.
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9 years ago
Then I can discount your statement. You misunderstood the gadget because lastTeamNe is not relevant for payback. I hoped you had some real example which did not behave correctly.
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quote:
lastTeamNe is not relevant for payback

L932: incTakeNE = te.eInc - lastTeamNe[teamID]
This means incTakeNe takes it into account.

L933: allyTeamEnergyIncome = allyTeamEnergyIncome + incTakeNE
This means allyTeamEnergyIncome is just a sum of the allyteam's incTakeNE's so it does take it into account too.

L1208: local repayMetal = inc/allyTeamEnergyIncome * summedOverdrive * paybackFactorFunction(repayRatio)
Here is the payback amount: allyTeamEnergyIncome is used here as the total so lastTeamNe is relevant.
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PLrankAdminSprung, last time I looked at the gadget the entire repayMetal, teamPacybackOD[teamID] [[i]sic[/i]] and therefore repayRatio business had no use.

It gets tracked accurately everywhere (even when giving away units), but it doesn't influence anything. Go ahead and check what variables can change by changing repayMetal, and you'll notice it's not going to affect anything in the game's actual eco. Yes, it's weird and a mess.

Also, somebody told me that lastTeamNe was basically an energy payback that happens after OD calculations (but since energy is already dealt with there, it happens in the next calculation instead). It's not related to repayMetal in any special way.


The actual OD payback happens like I described in a different post on the topic. I don't have it at hand anymore though.
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