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Map: Terra 2
 Terra 2
Title: PRO vs 3v3 +2.5k ELO
Host: GBrankPRO_rANDY
Game version: Zero-K v1.8.4.5
Engine version: 104.0.1-1486-gf266c81
Battle ID: 881018
Started: 4 years ago
Duration: 23 minutes
Players: 4
Bots: False
Mission: False
Rating: Casual
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Team 1 Lost
Chance of victory: 20.4%
XP gained: 139
GBrankPRO_rANDY died in 23 minutes
GBrankPRO_eXist died in 23 minutes
Team 2 Won!
Chance of victory: 79.6%
XP gained: 116
DErankManu12
NZrankesainane
Spectators
FIranksprang
USrankKshatriya
ATrankJohnHunter
RUrankizirayd
JPrankSoftwareBug
TWrankgounson8989




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DErankManu12
4 years ago
Probably a good game to cast

and 8:20-8:40 4 Kodachis had a force fire command on hover fac, but decided to move from incoming units without my input. This resulted in my Kodachis no longer staying in attack range and not killing the fac. This was a WTF for me and should never happen in my opinion.
+0 / -0
DErankManu12
4 years ago
nobody knows why my kodas did ignore my command?
+0 / -0


AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
4 years ago
(edited 4 years ago)
Fixed: https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/commit/7d45ae7b44610443bdfbfab21f5e4b14888ebd42

Looks like I am slowly walking back this PR: https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/pull/1680 and associated commit https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/commit/e070779d3a645134a881678eb464a648e358fbee

The prophesy is coming true.
quote:
I disagree with tactical AI being used to make units keep their distance from exploding structures. You have to answer this question: how did the Flea end up in Windgen range in the first place? I just put a Flea on fight vs a scattering of five Windgens and it defeated all of them without taking any damage. The Fight and leashing behaviour is already perfect for Flea vs structures (not considering sightlines, but tactical AI doesn't do that either). Dart does less well but it is perhaps the old unit for which this AI is reasonable. I would simply leave it out.

The main way to cause your units to die to Windgens is to tell them to walk next to the Windgen. This is easy behaviour to learn to avoid and the solution is the same whether there is tactical AI or not, attack Windgens with Fight. Therefore the main situation solved by this PR is when you move your Fleas next to a Windgen and they have time to automatically move away before it explodes.

The main downside of this PR is that your units will disobey your orders and potentially break. If someone give and order to move right next to a structure then maybe they wanted to be right next to that structure? If the structure explodes then they learn for next time. Sightline avoidance is a common requirement for raiding bases and when people start trying to do it they will run into the AI. This PR also adds some broken behaviour: imagine you have Hermits and want to kill a Geo in a hole. You tell the Hermits to go into the hole. They see the Geo and decide to walk out of the hole. Very frustrating. If someone has to touch a unit state then the UI has failed.

I think the small number of cases when this AI is useful is outweighed by the basic frustration of units disobeying orders.
+3 / -0

LVrankSenaven
4 years ago
(edited 4 years ago)
I don't like too much Unit AI. It limit human interaction and make many fails. I don't like paladin skirm Ai because it tends disobey commands and start moving back not in front. And i don't like snith AI because they auto attack enemy unit even while move is disabled and everything fails.
In same moment glaive raiding AI is great because you dont need them micro. Knight AI also sometimes behave strange when i give direct fire order on one target they sometimes starts moving around like skirms and stunned target run away because knight have short range and short stun duration. Iris sometime switch in crtl-w mode when i send it on higher elevation.
quote:
I think the small number of cases when this AI is useful is outweighed by the basic frustration of units disobeying orders.

Fully agree with this as well.
+0 / -0
ROrankForever
4 years ago
Woooo :D
+2 / -0

UArankdahn
4 years ago
(edited 4 years ago)
LVrankSenaven:
quote:
I don't like too much Unit AI. It limit human interaction and make many fails. I don't like paladin skirm Ai because it tends disobey commands and start moving back not in front. And i don't like snith AI because they auto attack enemy unit even while move is disabled and everything fails.
In same moment glaive raiding AI is great because you dont need them micro. Knight AI also sometimes behave strange when i give direct fire order on one target they sometimes starts moving around like skirms and stunned target run away because knight have short range and short stun duration. Iris sometime switch in crtl-w mode when i send it on higher elevation.


Unit AI done right is best that can happen to a strategy game currently. Name any other game where a raiding unit is so damn cool at raiding as glaive? The reason you like it is because it's done flawelessly for demand of the current gameplay. The reason you don't like other unit AIs is just because they are not yet done well. I also disabled by default quite a few: particularly Owl and most of flying units. Please don't tell you don't like Unit AI in general if you just don't like some of its parts :)
+2 / -0
ITrankThomas1
4 years ago
4hands

+6 / -0
NZrankesainane
4 years ago
Thanks for the vid @Kurosei!

[Spoiler]
+0 / -0
ROrankForever
4 years ago
Casted on Youtube

Sorry for the flickering while zooming in and out...I forgot OBS studio doesn't like Zero-K and also sorry for not having a mouse cursor. It seems that some settings in Zero-K make the cursor hidden if I want to record with NDI Scan Converter.

The 4K version will be available soon, right now just the 1080p version is processed.
+1 / -0