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+ skirm power rankings
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+ skirm power rankings
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+ the only skirms that are good are the ones that aren't true skirms
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+ the only skirms that are good are the ones that aren't true skirms
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+ the role of skirm has a very small window in which to operate effectively
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+ the role of skirm has a very small window in which to operate effectively
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+ 'true' skirmishers actually might need a buff
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+ 'true' skirmishers actually might need a buff
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+ skirms are accessible and disproportionately effective for newer players
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+ skirms are accessible and disproportionately effective for newer players
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+ the issue of big teams clogged with skirms could be addressed by buffing phoenix
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+ the issue of big teams clogged with skirms could be addressed by buffing phoenix
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+ we should also consider teaching players how to deal with scalpel/wolverine
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+ we should also consider teaching players how to deal with scalpel/wolverine
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[spoiler]
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[spoiler]
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"Skirmishers" in order of power/usefulness (according to me obviously):
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"Skirmishers" in order of power/usefulness (according to me obviously):
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- scalpel
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- scalpel
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- wolverine
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- wolverine
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- firewalker
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- firewalker
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- sharpshooter
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- sharpshooter
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- pene
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- pene
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- buoy
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- buoy
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- rogue
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- rogue
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- rocko
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- rocko
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- moderator
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- moderator
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- recluse
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- recluse
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\n
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\n
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Some are difficult to place above others, but I think this is a pretty decent list.
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Some are difficult to place above others, but I think this is a pretty decent list.
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\n
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\n
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Of those mentioned, I consider the bottom four average or worse. People are calling buoy OP but I don't see it. Pene and sharp-shooter are great at what they do but are suitably fragile and clumsy. Firewalker (and sharp-shooter)counter almost everything else on the list hard.
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Of those mentioned, I consider the bottom four average or worse. People are calling buoy OP but I don't see it. Pene and sharp-shooter are great at what they do but are suitably fragile and clumsy. Firewalker (and sharp-shooter)counter almost everything else on the list hard.
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\n
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\n
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Wolverine are good, but IMO well balanced since nerf. Require understanding to counter though.
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Wolverine are good, but IMO well balanced since nerf. Require understanding to counter though.
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\n
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\n
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Scalpel is the only one I think is OP, and even then, considering the impotent raider game that hover needs to sit through I'd say only just a little bit too powerful (and only in teams).
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Scalpel is the only one I think is OP, and even then, considering the impotent raider game that hover needs to sit through I'd say only just a little bit too powerful (and only in teams).
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\n
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\n
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IMO the role of skirmisher can only impact on the game within a limited window. After the raider game is ended but before skirmishers are hard countered. Before this point there is no opportunity for them to attain the density to survive raiders, and afterwards stuff like crabe, grizzly, firewalker, wyvern, pillager, thunderbird, cloaked roaches, striders etc. all put an end to them well and truly.
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IMO the role of skirmisher can only impact on the game within a limited window. After the raider game is ended but before skirmishers are hard countered. Before this point there is no opportunity for them to attain the density to survive raiders, and afterwards stuff like crabe, grizzly, firewalker, wyvern, pillager, thunderbird, cloaked roaches, striders etc. all put an end to them well and truly.
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\n
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\n
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Of the units listed above, it's not until you go all the way down the list and get to buoy that you see a 'true' skirmisher. All of the others have some sort of mechanic that make it more than just a skirm. Everything below buoy is a true skirmisher (with possible exception of moderator having 100% accuracy instagib). It's as if the role on its own is weak until something is added (if you accept my skirm order).
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Of the units listed above, it's not until you go all the way down the list and get to buoy that you see a 'true' skirmisher. All of the others have some sort of mechanic that make it more than just a skirm. Everything below buoy is a true skirmisher (with possible exception of moderator having 100% accuracy instagib). It's as if the role on its own is weak until something is added (if you accept my skirm order).
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\n
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\n
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I'd like to see some buffs to the bottom four in particular (rogue, rocko, recluse, moderator). I'd like to see a small nerf for scalpel to make it worse against raiders.
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I'd like to see some buffs to the bottom four in particular (rogue, rocko, recluse, moderator). I'd like to see a small nerf for scalpel to make it worse against raiders.
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\n
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\n
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To address the OP, I think the nature of mixing the roles of the top two units (wolverine and scalpel) is the problem, especially in teams. Less able players aren't able to address the specific weakness of these units (since they break unit role logic), and therefore any low skill player using these units is elevated to the equivalent of intermediate (beats noobs, loses to advanced players). No matter who uses these units, they pose a real threat that can only be countered by an able player who diverts both attention and resources to it. This means that the attention of the carry players is necessarily diverted to nullify this threat, which means the skirm wielding noob is punching far above their weight a lot of the time. I believe this is the reason the teams room is so dominated by skirms, not because of some actual real imbalance. I think this could largely be addressed indirectly through buffing phoenix. We could also try to teach people how to deal with these units?
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To address the OP, I think the nature of mixing the roles of the top two units (wolverine and scalpel) is the problem, especially in teams. Less able players aren't able to address the specific weakness of these units (since they break unit role logic), and therefore any low skill player using these units is elevated to the equivalent of intermediate (beats noobs, loses to advanced players). No matter who uses these units, they pose a real threat that can only be countered by an able player who diverts both attention and resources to it. This means that the attention of the carry players is necessarily diverted to nullify this threat, which means the skirm wielding noob is punching far above their weight a lot of the time. I believe this is the reason the teams room is so dominated by skirms, not because of some actual real imbalance. I think this could largely be addressed indirectly through buffing phoenix. We could also try to teach people how to deal with these units?
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\n
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\n
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Edit: apparently even buoy is considered assault/skirm, making the list actually pretty clear cut. True skirmishers are all bad, and mixed skirmishers are potentially too good.
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\n
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Also, scissor seems like a way better name for scalpel. or even secateur?
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[/spoiler]
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[/spoiler]
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"Skirmisher" discussion