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LOW Elo limit for "Teams: all welcome"

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10 years ago
I want to suggest put a low elo limit on this room.
Say for example 1350-1300 for a week to test.
There are really many battles when team get 0 lvl noobs in team, which have no idea how to build mexes and energy, they frequently build factories on the mex spots.
This ruins everyone lese game experience.
Low elo limit will prevent them from playing in this room, instead they can play some 1v1 or some games in "NEWBIES only" room to get the very basics of this game.
+1 / -4


10 years ago
Or just require mandatory singleplay for multiplayer access.
+4 / -0
This is also a good suggestion, in this way we will get more 1v1, nobody will rage at noob because he cannot build mex/solars, or build solars on mexes, etc...
I'm sick of it
+0 / -0
10 years ago
quote:
Or just require mandatory singleplay for multiplayer access.

That would work if we had a decent singeplayer xD
+0 / -0


10 years ago
quote:
That would work if we had a decent singeplayer xD

We might have something sufficient. But completing 2v1, 1v1 and 1v2 missions should also be good enough as well.
+0 / -0
10 years ago
Think problem is more that missions do not work for all players, at least not reliably enough do you can make it a requirement for all new players.

I think "Newbie Room" should be more than just normal room with elo limit:

1) Limit it to one map.
It is players first game, you want to make sure it is on a decent map.
That map should be a very basic one, so no water map or any "complicated" terrain.
Could even make a special "newbie map" with hints/signs on the map like "good position to build defense." That takes some work to make but not as much as a full tutorial.
Also prevents the "tons of map dls are starting because map is changed so often" problem.

1b) SC2 has beginner maps where rushing is harder, because the entrance to base is blocked with stones. Could do something similiar.

2) The newbie room games should not effet elo. Elo is supposed to meaure skill but if two very new players play each other it is more luck than anything. Instead have an archivement for winning a match on newbie host. 5 wins are required to play on normal host.
Sure, that can be cheated but so can elo. And even killing NullAI 5 times is more experience than some players have.

3) Limited unlocks for obvious reason.
Imo could even change the unlock system: On newbie host it is limited, in others rooms everything is buildable.

4) Not sure if/how that is doable: When player has wanted ~5 minutes in battleroom and no opponent joined, ask him if wants to add a bot player.

5) Whatever requirement is added, require it for existing good players too.
So that you have experienced players testing the system and reporting problems.
(new players are unlikely to report problems, they just leave)
+3 / -0
10 years ago
I agree with knorke, some extra leaning material would help. As to a elo limit on the teams host, I do not agree because elo is not reliable. If @[RD]Godde got a useless team for a lot of games then he would end up with 1200 elo. I would rather have a command that would force a player to spectate for a few games, then it would not rely on elo as defined by how often you get a terrible team.
+0 / -0
GBrankTheSponge no he wouldn't. You assume there is no balancer. If we take the balancer into account which always tries to give both teams a 50-50 chance to win(in a perfect world at the very least), it would be irrelevant what teammates he got, because in the end the teams would be made up in such a way that he still has a 50% chance to win or lose the game. This is, of course, granted that his current elo has steadied out to represent his current skill level.

You see, whether a team has low elo players or not is irrelevant, because due to the balancer and assuming no clanstacking, the team with the worst players will also be given the best players to compensate.

The thing that really loses games is people who underperform their current elo rating, like lvl 0 players who are not worth their 1250 rating or even worse, 1900 elo trolls who decide to throw games thus not performing anywhere close to that of the 1900 elo player in the other team. Still, if the 1900 elo troll player can keep his elo it means he will make up for his failed trolling in other games by carrying the team, but it will surely provide for some frustrating losses for some people who have to put up with it.

So, in short, theoretically, even if you had a 600 elo player on your team it will not hinder your chances of victory assuming that there are enough players in the room to properly balance the team. Teams lose because people underperform their current elo in that specific game, not because of low or high elo.

Edit: As for the solution, I'd rather much suggest a level limit to teams:all welcome. New players have then a chance to get some practice first and at least not underperform their starting 1250(or whatever it is for team games) elo. An elo limit is literally useless, as described in my post.
+0 / -0
10 years ago
This solution is not a good solution, because new players need to learn. And to learn they need no trolls or people that insults them. So the solution is to ban who insults and rages at new players. With every limit to elo or lever you will have trolls that attack new players, trolls are the problem of the game. Playing I see really few new playes that play so bad to give problems to the game, and I see some experienced players do big errors during the game. Be more patient with new players and you'll see they learn how to play.
+0 / -0
10 years ago
I suggest Troll limit for "Teams: all welcome" room. No more than 1 troll per team.
+1 / -0
10 years ago
quote:
No more than 1 troll per team.

we don't have enough playerbase to do that... trollbase too high!
+2 / -0
10 years ago
I think trolls are a different problem, unrelated to whether a "newbies room" is a good or bad idea.
Balancer problems are a different topic, too.

I thought this was about providing some sort of room where new players can play the game without being overwhelmed with all the options or experienced players.

Now I feel sorry and stupid for writing something constructive, I did not see who opend this thread :/
+0 / -0


10 years ago
Look, each topic I start, always rolls down to a discussion about trolls!
+0 / -0

10 years ago
"Teams: all welcome*"

*not all welcome
+3 / -0
quote:
Look, each topic I anyone start, always rolls down to a discussion about trolls!

+0 / -0
10 years ago
quote:
Look, each topic I anyone start, always rolls down to a discussion about trolls!


troll reporting for duty!!!

on the subject, you will get alot of nubs P.Oed by forcing them into a single player campaign while this game is advertised as multiplayer


i would only advise either a youtube video, or a very short tutorial(skipable) being made available to newbs when they just logged into zk. there are newbs that read the manual, and there are newbs that just get in and play (i was the latter) any hinderance to above mentioned, would probably resulted in me going afk or ragequitting the game.

stupid sugestions like making newbs spec x number of games will just hurt the playerbase...
+0 / -0
10 years ago
quote:
So, in short, theoretically, even if you had a 600 elo player on your team it will not hinder your chances of victory assuming that there are enough players in the room to properly balance the team. Teams lose because people underperform their current elo in that specific game, not because of low or high elo.

I see your point but since we are working in numbers we have to assume that everyone is a robot who performs consistently. And also in that perfect world where all games are 50/50 win chance, how does anybody have more or less than 1500 elo (assuming they perform consistently)? The point I am making is that elo is not reliable and to have reasonably accurate balance you need a human doing the balancing. Hence, my suggestion of a springie command to give a player a lower elo value temporarily (one or two games) or to force them to spectate that game (for people with 1250 elo that wont be changing).
+0 / -0

10 years ago
Yeah obviously real games are never truly 50/50 in terms of win chance. There are some small other factors too, but one of the most obvious ones is that people's skill levels are not constants, they fluctuate and in most cases improve over games played. Still, these small fluctuations are at worst gonna swing a theoretically 50/50 game into a very small advantage for one team and thus this is not really gamebreaking.

And again, winning or losing depends on either over- or underperforming your current expected performance(which is described by the elo number). If your skill level is higher than your current elo, you will win slightly more than 50% of your games.

But my main point was that elo itself should not be a criteria based upon what people get blocked from the teams all welcome room. That's what the experienced room is made for anyway.

Whether a lvl 0 should be able to join teams: all welcome games before playing a single game vs the CAI or the tutorials is another topic, I kind of think it's a nice and mannered thing to make yourself somewhat familiar with the very basics before joining ranked team games. At the same time I find it hard to believe that the occasional lvl 0 in team games is breaking the game or truly ruining the experience of other players.
+1 / -0

10 years ago
I found Snorke suggestions very well thought and support them. It would maybe go too far to put an elo limit in normal room and oblige newbies to play in noobs room but at least, those who go in nubs room would have good opportunities to learn...

"This ruins everyone lese game experience."

Since when is this a concern to you?

; ) I am trolling you... I like your new name btw.
+1 / -0
10 years ago
The game is not ruined by new players, the games is ruined by people that resign or exit game just because they don't like how it started, is ruined by people that pause the game 100 times just to waste time, is ruined by people that when the game is not going like they want start to insult all the team. What are we talking about here? See the reality and don't listen to one that insults and rages at everyone.
+1 / -0
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