One of biggest sea issues is that commander don't have weapon to defend itself even against weakest sea raiders. I know that disingrator gun works in water but its not enough. I also know that long time before com had torpedo gun and and gauss but they was removed. As i understand it was removed because such com become too strong because when it upgrade with range modules it could outrange almost any unit underwater except long range sub? Maybe its time to experiment and give again weapons for coms to fight underwater?
+3 / -0
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Zero-K does not really have robust tools for dealing with heavy underwater units. (Yes, Ultimatum exists, but it's a single unit and pretty limited at that.) I expect that would have to change for underwater com weapons to be a good idea.
+2 / -0
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I feel its high time to express some scallop flaws. It essentially has warm-up time to fire while underwater, during which it is completely immobilized and cant do shit. Which leads us to problem: scallop is a BAD sea riot. It cant reliably counter raiders, ducks, submarines. It is a big weakness. Without lobster scallop is mediocre in low numbers, merely acceptable in big numbers. i liked previous version of scallop better. Ducks are good vs scallop early game. By the time scallop has surfaced it is half-ded already. I don't like this raider-riot interaction dynamic at all. Ok, all this is irrelevant when you have lobster. Lobster makes everything better. And its kinda not something intuitive and beautiful gameplay-wise. OTOH, Thugs are useless without outlaw too. So we have a precedent. Hmm.
+1 / -2
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Scallop com would be interesting. I also thought about it. Even funny would be if it need to float up to use weapon. Its would limit its power and allow counter with units like grizzly. At least like safe start for testing. I know but i also think about that sea for many players is boring. Adding possibility to use commander for more then building and reclaiming would be interesting perspective. quote:
I feel its high time to express ome scallop flaws. It essentially has warm-up time to fire while underwater, during which it is completely immobilized and cant do shit. It is a big weakness. Without lobster scallop is mediocre in low numbers, merely acceptable in big numbers. i liked previous version of scallop better. |
Two scallops can kil one siren. Ships strugle vs scallop mass. Siren cant them counter properly because its slow, close range and cannot used with other units because friendly fire. If you add shield then ship can be cooked even worse. Ship arty costs much metalz. Didnt try clymore yet against scallop balls. But as its nerfed seems that it will less efficient. Was even older scallop version with long range torpedo launcher.
+0 / -0
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iirc siren outranges scallop pretty handily...dunno against which ship player you were up, i wouldnt send 2 scallops aganst siren because properly micromanaged siren would eat them for breakfast
+1 / -2
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Oh they were throwed by lobster. Forgot about that. LObster op.
+0 / -0
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I have one suggestion: how about allow amphbots to move while floating? or allow it only for scallop at least... a toggle for amphbots so that player can choose whether he wants them up or down, like for raven
+0 / -2
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I think thrown Scallops shouldn't be firing their torpedoes. That will make it slightly less powerful.
+0 / -0
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I think that scallop float to fire with the ability to fire 2 weapons is so strange. On land it has shotgun, on sea it has that and an even more powerful torpedo thingie. It makes it much stronger in shallows and much stronger against surface targets, able to out DPS most things.
+2 / -0
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Aquanim: What if commander water weapons included flotation, like other amphibious robots do? I also don't like how essential lobsters have become. I'm fine with the unit conceptually, but for things like flinging bots at land for amphibious assaults, not turning a bunch of scallops and lobsters into a hoping ball of doom.
+3 / -0
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What if every commander had a torpedo-like weapon close to the urchin? Would´nt that ease this issue alot? A commander equipped with such a weapon would be able to fight off 5-8 ducks but would die to greater numbers. Maybe the suggested torpedo should have less range than the urchin and maybe a bit less damage but you get the principle.
+1 / -0
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com farts could raise it to the surface
+2 / -0
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Honestly, if commanders had underwater weapons, that would probably be best to do alongside an effort to make underwater damage much more accessible.
+1 / -0
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That is a good point. I think a few ships/hovers could use having underwater sidearms, although Zero-K's devs seem to dislike the concept of sidearm.
+0 / -0
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Maybe because if the sidearm has a different range than the primary weapon, you get annoying behavior where the unit stands off and only one weapon is in range to fire. Maybe. Anyone, the other idea would be to give the units a separate weapon, shared reload cycle, shared bones, like the Duck, where one fires at underwater targets and the other fires at surface/air targets. These can have reduced damage, making it still valuable to hide underwater but not making as powerful as it is now. (That would require a unitstate for firing at surface only/submerged only/both, too.)
+1 / -0
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I think a complete overhaul of the underwater/abovewater relation is past-due.
+2 / -0
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Is there a range that would be effective against some units, while, if enhanced with upgrades, would still leave viable counters? e.g. without upgrades, it can hold off ducks. With upgrades, it's still not picking off urchins attrition free. p.s. Farting would make the com sink.
+2 / -0
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quote:
Is there a range that would be effective against some units, while, if enhanced with upgrades, would still leave viable counters? |
Yes. Duck has underwater range of 210, Urchin has a range of 550, Comms can get up to 1.6x range. To get Duck < Comm < Urchin the torpcomm would have to have a range >210 & <344. At 211 base, max range is 337. At 343 base range, max range is 548.
+0 / -0
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