Golliath Underpowered for cost, Grizzly overpowered.

Here's a copy from chat:
(It's 12:30 AM, im not reformating it)

Difficulties, i had to pastebin it http://pastebin.com/xFTApGVB



err, having a bit of trouble posting this without pastebin

Here's the error codes
http://pastebin.com/Gfnij8v7

I think Grizzly is a bit weak myself. On land it's ok-ish but obviously really weak to swarms (This is good! Actual role!) and even though we'd expect it to be a bit worse due to the sea sea capacity, it can't really keep up power wise with most ships.

Though the balance on it isn't too bad.

>Golly weapon has AoE

Actually, it doesn't. It has 34 AOE, which is basically nothing. Kerr did some experiments running a swarm of 10 Glaives at a Goli. He repeated this test 10 times. Only 1 of the 10 times did the Goli kill 2 Glaives in 1 shot.

I don't think that the balance of these two units is an issue. Keep them how they are.

The Flamer has pierce though and a high AoE, which makes it an effective riot, while the Grizzly has a weapon appropriate for its unit class with explicit vulnerabilities (Among them, the beamtime and dual beam makes it much worse vs very small targets, while moving, or vs moving targets).

Yeah, I have no way to test flamethrower DPS.

Still My main concern is that it isn't Powerful enough for it's restricted movetype (it has THE most restrictive movetype (besides water) so It's usefullness should be excellent within it's very limited area, while other units such as bots and amph should be less effective than it (because they can fight in most of the map)

Also, it doesn't outrange the grizzly.

And, what antelope said. The golly has effectively no AOE on it's main weapon.
For cost, it is not an effective riot, an effective riot unit should be able to make cost VS raiders. (or come close to it)
The flamethrower does give it some much needed anti raider ability though, without that it would die to 10 gliave. (Unlike the grizzly laser, it frequently misses raiders)


Also, the speed advantage is 2.0 VS 1.6, only a .4 difference. This allows the golly to catch a grizzly in open terrain, but in most cases the grizzly would be able to retreat before ti was caught (firing all the time) (also, it is capable of dodging golly shots, those things miss a lot)

Btw everything 'm saying is based on testing VS cai, cheating in gollys/grizzlys, and a few atteempts to use golly online.


Bwahaha, Random Idea:
Make sumo curl into a ball after it jumps, instead of jumping like now, just give it "thrust" in the direction you choose(can arc like it does now, letting it jump up cliffs), it does excellent damage to units it hits. (those units are also "Bounced" or "Pushed" after being hit)

I SOOO want to see a sumo tackle a dante, pushing it off a cliff!

in real games, grizzly is only useful as supported porcbreaker.. while golly can bust through the frontline

I dont see big problem but still 1 pyro beats 1 llt.

pyro mechanics are less than ideal, but not broken

Effective riot unit? It's not a riot unit AT ALL. It's meant to be anti-heavy. Essentially, it was intended as a way for tanks to combat late game reaper balls and mechs. It doesn't really do this at all, instead, it replaces reapers.

Well, from extremely limited experience... The Raider tanks seem to have a effective anti structure use of fire, and I've seen 6 raiders take down a group of about 40 glaives, without much damage. Fire seems to have different effects, dependant on the unit it is used with. The walker fire Arty seems to also work this same way, and can be equally well used.