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@[RD]Godde and I played a few games.
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1 |
@[RD]Godde and I played a few games.
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@B195146
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2 |
@B195146
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The first game, I just reasoned regarding the two weaknesses of the Archer: High HP units which waste its tank, and homing high-alpha skirms which can hit it even if it pushes them away (In fact, this helps them to kite!).
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The first game, I just reasoned regarding the two weaknesses of the Archer: High HP units which waste its tank, and homing high-alpha skirms which can hit it even if it pushes them away (In fact, this helps them to kite!).
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So, halberd and scalpel were the natural choice. As it happens I didn't even really need to make it to Scalpels, exhausting his archers alone meant he couldn't raid me, was stuck in his base, and I could snipe his eco with Halbs once the archers ran out. One closed Halberd can drain 3 Archers.
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So, halberd and scalpel were the natural choice. As it happens I didn't even really need to make it to Scalpels, exhausting his archers alone meant he couldn't raid me, was stuck in his base, and I could snipe his eco with Halbs once the archers ran out. One closed Halberd can drain 3 Archers.
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It became a bit harder when he switched off of Archers to Bouy/Duck, but I was too far ahead and won that game. Rare that I can take a game from Godde, so that shows it's a very strong counter, which he agreed with. That's only one factory though.
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It became a bit harder when he switched off of Archers to Bouy/Duck, but I was too far ahead and won that game. Rare that I can take a game from Godde, so that shows it's a very strong counter, which he agreed with. That's only one factory though.
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So I tried shieldbots:
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So I tried shieldbots:
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@B195152
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@B195152
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I figured I could do a similiar thing to Halberds as I did with Zeus, but it just didn't work. I thought with their range and accuracy they could hit the archers, but they just got pushed around and didn't have the HP to drain their tanks. I switched to Scythe, which did a lot better and got into his economy several times, figuring that with Scythe I can get in range and hit, and if he pushes me out of range I can just cloak again. This worked for the most part, and I think could be viable, but by then it was too late. Worth noting: I was ahead in eco the whole game. The Archer in the bottom left who dies to an in-construction LLT and the con assisting it shows how poor of a raider Archer is, and with it's slower speed and high cost it's coverage is poor, so I could really expand aggressively. But he got army advantage and Archers scale really well with other archers, till the point he could take out my comm, and by that point I didn't have the static defenses to stop him.
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I figured I could do a similiar thing to Halberds as I did with Zeus, but it just didn't work. I thought with their range and accuracy they could hit the archers, but they just got pushed around and didn't have the HP to drain their tanks. I switched to Scythe, which did a lot better and got into his economy several times, figuring that with Scythe I can get in range and hit, and if he pushes me out of range I can just cloak again. This worked for the most part, and I think could be viable, but by then it was too late. Worth noting: I was ahead in eco the whole game. The Archer in the bottom left who dies to an in-construction LLT and the con assisting it shows how poor of a raider Archer is, and with it's slower speed and high cost it's coverage is poor, so I could really expand aggressively. But he got army advantage and Archers scale really well with other archers, till the point he could take out my comm, and by that point I didn't have the static defenses to stop him.
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I
still
think
the
correct
counter
is
to
slow
down
his
eco
and
expansion
either
using
Scythe
or
Glaive
(
Glaives
just
avoiding
his
Archers,
since
they're
faster
and
cheaper
for
better
coverage)
,
then
expand
with
LLT's
yourself.
If
you
can
take
out
his
buildings
and
he
can't
take
out
yours,
you
out-eco
him,
but
dealing
with
that
big
mid-game
Archer
ball
is
still
going
to
be
hard.
Burrowed
ticks?
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13 |
I
still
think
the
correct
counter
is
to
slow
down
his
eco
and
expansion
either
using
Scythe
or
Glaive
(
Glaives
just
avoiding
his
Archers,
since
they're
faster
and
cheaper
for
better
coverage)
,
then
expand
with
LLT's
yourself.
Edit:
It's
also
important
to
spam
solars,
archers
can
kill
winds,
but
solars
waste
their
tank
so
bad.
If
you
can
take
out
his
buildings
and
he
can't
take
out
yours,
you
out-eco
him,
but
dealing
with
that
big
mid-game
Archer
ball
is
still
going
to
be
hard.
Burrowed
ticks?
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Anyway, there are counters, I don't think it's OP. But it also has no synergy, stacks only with itself (and grizzlies), is good against almost every class of mobile and is annoying to fight against.
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Anyway, there are counters, I don't think it's OP. But it also has no synergy, stacks only with itself (and grizzlies), is good against almost every class of mobile and is annoying to fight against.
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16 |
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Godde raised the point that it had good synergy with old duck because the duck was like a mini-scalpel. You'd get your high alpha shot off, then push the enemy away while you reload. I think this means the duck and archer have better synergy, but it also gives them the same role (Since the archer and duck both can be 'shot wasted', are both good vs mobiles, etc). Either way I think the Archer probably needs it's range to go down to at least the range of a conventional riot unit. Then skirms become a much more obvious counter because pushing them away just helps them kite.
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17 |
Godde raised the point that it had good synergy with old duck because the duck was like a mini-scalpel. You'd get your high alpha shot off, then push the enemy away while you reload. I think this means the duck and archer have better synergy, but it also gives them the same role (Since the archer and duck both can be 'shot wasted', are both good vs mobiles, etc). Either way I think the Archer probably needs it's range to go down to at least the range of a conventional riot unit. Then skirms become a much more obvious counter because pushing them away just helps them kite.
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So when will Archer be nerfed?