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@ Shadow, I want to defend [edit:] the premise of your thoughts, as they are similar to my reaction to a number of things, but for for this post, for now, maybe I'll just add my 2 cents on some other things.
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@ Shadow, I want to defend [edit:] the premise of your thoughts, as they are similar to my reaction to a number of things, but for for this post, for now, maybe I'll just add my 2 cents on some other things.
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Some points about Spiders, although not necessarily issues:
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Some points about Spiders, although not necessarily issues:
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- No range past 600
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- No range past 600
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- Venom + flea AI always seems to screw me over, with venoms wiping out my surgical flea squad via infuriating friendly fire (literally removing venom's pitiful damage would be a fucking buff because the only thing it kills are its own fleas), or what seems like multiple venoms targeting the same stun-locked enemy when they should be target-switching to an unstunned enemy within range (Can anyone else confirm that? Maybe needs testing)
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- Venom + flea AI always seems to screw me over, with venoms wiping out my surgical flea squad via infuriating friendly fire (literally removing venom's pitiful damage would be a fucking buff because the only thing it kills are its own fleas), or what seems like multiple venoms targeting the same stun-locked enemy when they should be target-switching to an unstunned enemy within range (Can anyone else confirm that? Maybe needs testing)
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- Redbacks stats on paper should be the worst riot by a significant margin (Even the pyro can nearly match the all-terrain advantage. And cloaky - while maybe not matching spiders' intel advantage - also have good scouting).
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- Redbacks stats on paper should be the worst riot by a significant margin (Even the pyro can nearly match the all-terrain advantage. And cloaky - while maybe not matching spiders' intel advantage - also have good scouting).
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- That being said, on a map that had pure mountains (I don't think I've played a 1v1 map that extreme), spiders would be the only land choice, and I'd be happy giving spiders a disadvantage on most maps, while having mountain maps in rotation where we see spider vs. air (did that "Hide and Seek" map play out like that when it was in rotation?). If people aren't religiously against allowing air facs in 1v1, I'd like to make sure that swifts/locusts can adequately detect cloak (can they already? maybe a low-altitude toggle? I wish every aircraft had a low-altitude toggle)
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- That being said, on a map that had pure mountains (I don't think I've played a 1v1 map that extreme), spiders would be the only land choice, and I'd be happy giving spiders a disadvantage on most maps, while having mountain maps in rotation where we see spider vs. air (did that "Hide and Seek" map play out like that when it was in rotation?). If people aren't religiously against allowing air facs in 1v1, I'd like to make sure that swifts/locusts can adequately detect cloak (can they already? maybe a low-altitude toggle? I wish every aircraft had a low-altitude toggle)
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- I've read that people think crab sucks. Statistically, the speed is awful and compounded by both the fact that apparently there's a move-delay (haven't had many chances to use it, yet) if it pauses at any point, and the fact that people are encouraged to use it stationary. Generally, if you don't kite with ranged unit, it dies, although perhaps that's mitigated by the fact that its AOE tends to do decent against the type of units that are fast. Also, of course its ability to camp out, protected, on mountains and terraform is huge. Right now, it's nice vs. most units but on paper, gets hard-countered by every single fac's artillery (firewalker, phantom, racketeer, emissary, badger/impaler, lance). Given flea's lack of HP for assault, and venom's lack of actual damage, I guess you have rely on widow for keeping enemy artillery stunned. (In addition, crab is pretty similar to recluse.)
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- I've read that people think crab sucks. Statistically, the speed is awful and compounded by both the fact that apparently there's a move-delay (haven't had many chances to use it, yet) if it pauses at any point, and the fact that people are encouraged to use it stationary. Generally, if you don't kite with ranged unit, it dies, although perhaps that's mitigated by the fact that its AOE tends to do decent against the type of units that are fast. Also, of course its ability to camp out, protected, on mountains and terraform is huge. Right now, it's nice vs. most units but on paper, gets hard-countered by every single fac's artillery (firewalker, phantom, racketeer, emissary, badger/impaler, lance). Given flea's lack of HP for assault, and venom's lack of actual damage, I guess you have rely on widow for keeping enemy artillery stunned. (In addition, crab is pretty similar to recluse.)
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So, as a start, if we don't want to fundamentally change crab, or buff its ability to camp mountains, maybe:
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So, as a start, if we don't want to fundamentally change crab, or buff its ability to camp mountains, maybe:
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A) as others have previously said in the crab thread, a tiny increase in range, even just to simplify stingers, might help
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A) as others have previously said in the crab thread, a tiny increase in range, even just to simplify stingers, might help
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B) maybe match its speed to the other three ~50 elmo/s spider units.
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B) maybe match its speed to the other three ~50 elmo/s spider units.
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C) you could also consider creative approaches like changing the movement-based lockdown to a halberd-style firing-based lockdown so it could gradually advance and survive while being kited by artillery - without needing widow infiltration.
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C) you could also consider creative approaches like changing the movement-based lockdown to a halberd-style firing-based lockdown so it could gradually advance and survive while being kited by artillery - without needing widow infiltration.
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Hovers on deck.
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What changes would you make to each factory's unit rosters?