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@GoogleFrog
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@GoogleFrog
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[quote]
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[quote]
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The critiques of myself and others generally boil down to the MMR system being written for mathematical accuracy instead of in a way that makes sense for general humans. We can apply this generalization here.
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The critiques of myself and others generally boil down to the MMR system being written for mathematical accuracy instead of in a way that makes sense for general humans. We can apply this generalization here.
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You don't see meaningful changes after individual games because changes on a short timescale tend to be meaningless. The MMR system doesn't care that humans can derive some enjoyment or meaning by, essentially, indulging in the gamblers fallacy or Pavlovian conditioning. I consider attempts to add such feedback to have failed because the underlying system does not contain any human0-meaningful concept of post-game MMR adjustment.
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You don't see meaningful changes after individual games because changes on a short timescale tend to be meaningless. The MMR system doesn't care that humans can derive some enjoyment or meaning by, essentially, indulging in the gamblers fallacy or Pavlovian conditioning. I consider attempts to add such feedback to have failed because the underlying system does not contain any human0-meaningful concept of post-game MMR adjustment.
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[/quote]
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[/quote]
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Seems fixable. Possible solution:
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Seems fixable. Possible solution:
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* keep current system as a hidden elo, or true elo
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* keep current system as a hidden elo, or true elo
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* make up fake elo which is visible instead hidden elo which has few simple rules:
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* make up fake elo which is visible instead hidden elo which has few simple rules:
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- never loose virtual skill number on victory
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- never loose virtual skill number on victory
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- never gain virtual skill number on loss
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- never gain virtual skill number on loss
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- adjust virtual skill number change according to it's relative position with true elo to make them converge over time, like smallest possible change: +/-5, greatest possible change, +/-50
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- adjust virtual skill number change according to it's relative position with true elo to make them converge over time, like smallest possible change: +/-5, greatest possible change, +/-50
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This way we lie to ourselves with new system so we keep our sanity and everyone sees intuitive number.
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This way we lie to ourselves with new system so we keep our sanity and everyone sees intuitive number.
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Examples:
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Examples:
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* your true elo: 1800, your virutal skill number: 1600, you win: you gain around 40-50 virtual skill number
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* your true elo: 1800, your virutal skill number: 1600, you win: you gain around 40-50 virtual skill number
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* your true elo: 1600, your virutal skill number: 1800, you win: you gain 5 virtual skill number
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* your true elo: 1600, your virutal skill number: 1800, you win: you gain 5 virtual skill number
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* your true elo: 1700, your virutal skill number: 1700, you win: you gain your true elo difference, with minimum of 5.
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* your true elo: 1700, your virutal skill number: 1700, you win: you gain your true elo difference, with minimum of 5.
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* your true elo: 1600, your virutal skill number: 1800, you loose: you loose 40-50 virtual skill number
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* your true elo: 1600, your virutal skill number: 1800, you loose: you loose 40-50 virtual skill number
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* your true elo: 1800, your virutal skill number: 1600, you loose: you loose 5 virtual skill number
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* your true elo: 1800, your virutal skill number: 1600, you loose: you loose 5 virtual skill number
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You could adjust limits and quantities to make them converge slower. There's a math formula which describes the relative change left to make up depending on how would you like it to converge. Limit of base(25?)+sqrt(difference) seems like one way to go.
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You could adjust limits and quantities to make them converge slower. There's a math formula which describes the relative change left to make up depending on how would you like it to converge. Limit of base(25?)+sqrt(difference) seems like one way to go.
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I'm not sure how dense WHR system is. Possibly changes should be around +/- 1/10 not 5/50 and scaled up with size of teams in game.
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I'm not sure how dense WHR system is. Possibly changes should be around +/- 1/10 not 5/50 and scaled up with size of teams in game.
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btw, @[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng it's cool you are still with zk after so many years and little time to play :)
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Current MMR system