Some models really need replacements

I'm still hoping you to replace some of those ugly models. You could start with juggernauth to be replaced with beheriths sumo:



Next on the list could be some of the turrets like defender. You could try for example this:



Visually zero-k has a problem of inconsistency. By using beheriths, cremuss' and mr.bob models you could be a huge step ahead as they together work pretty well.

I intended to make the spherebot version of the sniper and hammer, but there is a general chorus of 'They all look the same, i cant tell them apart!' and 'not ANOTHER spherebot' so didnt (or havent yet).

I'm not sure we should be using mr.bobs models, they are intended for the BA remake. I also honestly feel that by recycling the same texture like this, they have the same problem as the spherebots in using an identical pallette (Even if texture allocation is different), and are mostly monochrome (Teamcolour + black). Other units can have slight variations in the palette to ensure you can tell them apart. Still, i guess if they are better looking and open source...

Anyway, if you want to help with this, getting models ingame is one of the easier tasks of moddev.

I think our MT model is better.

Behesumo problem is that it doesn't have enough guns to go with our current unit design for Jugglenaut, although we could always do something novel with the design (what, I'm not sure exactly - anyone have any zany ideas?)

> Visually zero-k has a problem of inconsistency.
I don't think so. I value interesting model design and differentiability when playing over consistency. Some consistency is good but the way it is sometimes used makes consistency a euphemism for "can't tell the units apart and I'm not fixing it".

To me nothing stands out as inconsistent in a bad way. If you think the shieldbots are inconsistent and need changing we're never going to agree.

I agree the ugly models should be replaced. My definition of ugly is probably different. Here is a list off the top of my head with a lose ordering of most important first.

Bantha: The one just drops below my threshold of prettiness. Design is ok but not great. It's the only model really think needs replacing.

Doomsday Machine: The quality is debatable and to me the unit design is very very poor. The structure isn't even a Cylinder when closed, it makes no sense. Due to these 2 factors I even prefer the OTA DDM.

Det: Ok design, model and texture are a bit ugly.

Penetrator: Doesn't fit that well with hovers and could have a more interesting design.

Spiders (Weaver, Venom, Recluse): I think the unit design is spot on though they could have better implementation. The texture change made them look far better. I will (and have) revert replacement models with inferior design.

On the general models from those artists you suggest.

Beheriths model's a generally good; they're not too serious and can be interesting. I think we're using morty, dom, spy and 'crasher' (as a spider assault).

I have considered creating a role so that we can use Beherith's Sumo from that model screenshot. The Sumo model does not look heavy enough for the Jugglenaut so I prefer our current one which does look a lot better with the texture, I thought it needed replacing before textures were redone. Anyway Sumo could be a Mech level pouncing fast attack unit from the look of the design.

The heavy AA model is nice as well but idk what kind of role it would have. Spiders don't really need another unit but I'm open to suggestions.

Cremuss makes really nice buildings but they are a bit generic and don't quite match our style. Idk if he's made any units and we already have a set of buildings.

Mr Bob's stuff is imo bland and samey. He makes some nice stuff but I wouldn't take it over most of what we've got currently. It looks as if he is restricted by OTA unit designs, the textures (only 2ish colours) and realism (the models are gritty and don't exaggerate unit roles).

Take Mr Bob's defender, it's not the model for a paper thin turret. The lack of differentiation makes it look generic.

We've yet to see what Mr Bob does with Arm, maybe he will use a less gritty style and that will fit more with ZK. He may make a nice set of Spiders or a Bantha. He'll probably make some T3 and they should be decent so we could flesh out the mechs or get more commander chassis.

And one more thing: Gunships are IMO most inconsistenct combination. The overall feeling is confused, disconnected and just sad.

I understand the can't-tell-them-apart issue, but I don't think it's really a problem for the Cloaky Bots, since their weapons all look noticably different, and are all in different poses (not to mention their size differences).

Also, I agree about the Penetrator, and the Gunships. The gunships just look like they need a consistent colour scheme, at the moment it seems that half of them are black and half of them are white. And the Black Dawn doesn't look like it actually has anywhere to launch missiles from...
Love the Krow, though.

The thing is, the people you mentioned, crem, mr bob, behe: they dont have models for the problem areas you mentioned, such as gunships. We could add behes bots in to fill the gaps in our lineup (As we have) but they dont match the lineup of any specific fac, again just making a hodge-podge of inconsistency. The Can isnt melee, the pyro looks armoured rather than jumpjetty- and maackey worked hard to make that model set (And the defender), even if it as incomplete and sometimes spotty, and we try to encourage the work of in-house designers who work specifically for us.

Crems models are the same. You can see the geo and the planetwars structures. They are just so... different. Very dark black everywhere with yellow panels. It looks nothing like the rest of the game. And again: What would we use them for? This set wasnt made for us.

On the other hand, you know, when i make gunships- I KNOW what gunship i have. Even whizzing about at a distance. I wish i had that kind of visual coherency with my spherebots (BTW, licho doesnt model!). They look like a fruit basket but they're better than identical models with weapon swaps.

On another spherebot model: I've thought a lot about increasing the texture size of the spherebot texture, and making a darker copy of the spherebot texture with a different, less glowing teamcolour arrangement. This way, i can make the shoulder pads on the rocko dark, while the legs on the glaive are dark. Mix and matching this way will probably help with distance recognition (scythe cloaker and sniper would of course be wholly dark). Another thing that will really help is different scripts, so they each have a different feel. The warrior is instantly recognisable just because of the way it walks.

"I think you are making problem where it isint. Whats wrong with hammers or sniper? Well I never been fan of "pretty graphics" Penetrator fits perfectly too, it is most powerful unit, so why it should blend with all others. Where is problem models which are still from TA or whatever wrong license."

Now this statement is pretty akward. Are you basically saying that you agree that theres a big inconsistency around, but it's not a problem, cos only that matters is the gameplay and the fact that one can identify units easily? That might be true in your case, but not mine. I do care graphics.

And on the other hand consistency doesn't mean blending and non-identity unless you want so. You really can create consistent, a whole set of units without suffering any loss in identifiability.

I tell you what is the problem with current situation, with all the wrong license or TA derived units whatever: The feeling of incompleteness and the feeling of 'higgledy-piggledy' (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/higgledy-piggledy / Found a nice word to desrcribe it :)

And whatsoever, I personally, while we lack of good consistent units with high identifiability, prefer blendness over identifiability because it makes me feel that the game is complete.

Sorry Saktoth, I credited wrong guy :>

Actually, now hearing almost all of you developers, I'm afraid that you guys lack of mutual vision of how the game should look like in artistic way.

I'm curious - are there any plans to rename or even replace the TA-units that have been replaced with TA-remake models?

I mean, the Tank lab is 90% TA-remakes (Mr. D, wasn't it?) and still sports the TA names to the units.

I can't come up with a single good name.