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Panther OP

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GBrank[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng
10 years ago
(edited 10 years ago)
Just to check, do others feel this way? Right now if I'm light vehicles and a competent opponent spams panthers I lose horribly every time. Scorchers get absolutely butchered, ravagers miss and riots are both horribly slow and only just trade 1:1 when the panther group is skirmishing them
+2 / -0
Skasi
10 years ago
Maybe watch other good players using Scorchers against tanks.
+0 / -0


GBrank[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng
10 years ago
(edited 10 years ago)
I mean, I do pay attention to other players and usually play teamgames. I'm not just basing this on me getting my ass kicked, since that usually happens even when I'm using OP stuff these days. I see Sponge spamming panther on loop all game and rolling over people. Its just a very easy unit to use and a very difficult one to face off using light vehicles. Cloakies and shields dont do much better - shield can felon, but then is likely to get reapered - but they have access to bombs.
+0 / -0

EErank[ISP]Lauri
10 years ago
From what I've played and spectated, panthers are quite a non-issue for shields. Bandits are decent vs them, roaches and felons even better.

I agree though that they are quite difficult to deal with as LV.
+0 / -0


GBrank[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng
10 years ago
I find bandits fare horribly against koda/panther unless your opponent screws up and drives them into melee
+0 / -0

CArankPxtl
10 years ago
Watching the 2V2 tourney, the only thing that seemed to consistently defeat panthers was accidentally biting off more than they could chew and trying to take down Levelers or something.
+3 / -0
Skasi
10 years ago
I am pretty sure that's because the unit-concept of the Panther are perfectly designed to deal with Scorchers.

1) EMP stops Scorchers from getting close to deal 100% damage.
2) If Scorchers gets close and kills a Panther, the Panther explodes and deals EMP damage to enemies based on distance.

In fact, both these things count TWICE. EMP is not just especially good against heatray (to kite 100% dmg), but also against fast, high-dps units in general. Same story for Panther's explosion - it is not only good against heatrays, but also against cheap, spammable units in general.
+0 / -0
GBrankTheSponge
10 years ago
I agree that panthers are OP. A single one or maybe a pair can be dealt with but once there are 3 or more other raiders become ineffective against them. It is sort of like the old scorcher play where you charge in then instantly turn back hoping your enemy chases you. The difference is that you don't have to chase panthers to take serious losses from them.
+3 / -0

CArankPxtl
10 years ago
I never quite got why the EMP death was added anyways. I didn't see the idea floated or described anywhere, it just appeared.
+0 / -0

EErank[ISP]Lauri
10 years ago
(edited 10 years ago)
quote:
I find bandits fare horribly against koda/panther unless your opponent screws up and drives them into melee

http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/237844
Panthers vs bandits, panther spammer having a 650 elo advantage. Even then, bandits traded very well. There are also other replays, like one of the games where @Eltorero beat rANDY as shields vs heavy panther spam.

If tank player goes kodachi then you just switch out of bandit and attack him with a shieldball. If he didn't switch out of raiders, he dies.
+0 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
10 years ago
I'm leaning towards the opinion that as shields vs tank you should just spam pure Roach anyway.

It trades favorably both vs koda and vs panther...
+0 / -0


GBrank[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng
10 years ago
nah, panther can blow roach at a distance taking minimal damage.
+2 / -0
GBrankKyubey
10 years ago
there are 3 ways to beat panther with LV

1: scorcher micro, raid hard, macro econ, win with spam

2: ravager/leveler push, pwn enemy base

3: slasher+scorcher push, panther will die
+0 / -0


GBrank[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng
10 years ago
in practice, all of those things rely on your tanks opponent being incompetent, and slashers are absolutely useless in the matchup
+0 / -0

EErank[ISP]Lauri
10 years ago
quote:
nah, panther can blow roach at a distance taking minimal damage.

That should never happen.
+3 / -0

USrankRyMarq
10 years ago
I don't play LV much at all, but I have noticed panthers being unexpectedly weak, not the other way around.

Hover destroys them with ease.

Raiders tend to trade acceptably well against them, and zeus do well.

Jump is weak to them, but not as much as they are weak to almost everything else HV gets. If they get a sumo out that will deal with them effectively enough.

Shield seems generally solid against them.

I don't know LV well enough, but Levelers seem like they would be passable.

Amfib seems a bit messy, but I believe buoys would manage, especially after the coming buff.

Honestly, they have not impressed me in general, though they have their uses.
+0 / -0

CArankPxtl
10 years ago
(edited 10 years ago)
USrankRyMarq

These players are primarily talking about the raider-v-raider game (and other high-speed units like crawling bombs), which is the bread-and-butter of high-level play. Slower units are of lower importance in games where you've got a small number of players controlling a large area of the map.
+0 / -0
GBrankKyubey
10 years ago
(edited 10 years ago)
quote:
in practice, all of those things rely on your tanks opponent being incompetent, and slashers are absolutely useless in the matchup

no not really... 3 slashers+3scorchers easily stops 3 panthers, and has the added bonus of killing llt ect quite easily

slashers do the bulk of the damage, scorchers protect the slashers from attack/kill attacking panthers
+0 / -0


GBrank[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng
10 years ago
^ I really doubt this works, 3 panther will comfortably kill 3 scorchers and slashers do not deal enough damage to hurt them in time, esp with your own scorchers blocking LoS
+0 / -0

GBrankTheEloIsALie
10 years ago
(edited 10 years ago)
*LoF
:P
+1 / -0
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