Tanks and light vehicles do not behave like tanks and light vehicles

[my opinions]

These tanks just do not feel like tanks. Why do they have 2 barrels? Why are they so slow? An M4 Sherman (WW2) could do 25-30 MPH so why are tanks from thousands of years in the future so slow?

I think that there are various issues with the light vehicle and tank factories, the main ones are that they do not move or handle realistically and the tanks factory does not really seem to know what it is for. The tank factory seems to be good at storming fortified positions but not a lot else. It has two assault units and a strange anti nothing-in-particular unit (panther) but no riot unit or skirmisher.

The main problem with the light vehicle factory is the unrealistic movement and handling. I think they should all go back to having tracks and move a bit faster. Something I think would be really cool (and good for propaganda) is if vehicles could jump over hills. By this I do not mean jumping the gap at the top of Tabula Flooded or putting rockets on the underside, I mean leaving the ground for a a second or two after it goes up a small hill at speed (Halo's warthog behaviour, but not so extreme).

I think the tank factory needs some new units, or at least the current ones get put in different roles. I think the reaper is pretty much fine where it is, maybe a speed increase would be in order though. The Goliath should become like a realistic tank, long-ish range, fairly fast, very high power main gun and a coaxial machine gun (along with a significant cost increase). The panther should become like a lightning ravager, fast with that hill jumping thing and its current gun (although I was thinking of a lightning grenade launcher). The copperhead should become like a ZSU-23-4 with four of those archangel autocannons. The kodachi should become a flame tank with higher weight than it currently has, the tank factory is for heavies, not light raiders. That would also give the factory a riot unit. I quite like the Banisher where it is, a missile support role. The artillery options are fine, a range increase to the pillager might be in order though.

I think the current incarnation of light vehicles is fine, but they need tracks and hill jumping. Also it may be nice if one of them got to be a Bradley (this)

All of those tank changes would come with cost increases.
[/my opinions]

What do you think? I envisage this as making the tank factory more useful for storming fortified positions without making lesser striders obsolete. It should not break balance with other factories because by the time these are coming onto the field, there will be Dantes and Ultimatums to deal with them. I am anticipating a 99% "you need to be in a psychiatric hospital" reaction to this.

tl;dr version:
Tanks need a weight increase and LVs need wings.

Actually in 94 it is possible to "unglue" ground units from surface, allowing them to jump on ramps, and even to be microed off-cliff.

I'd love the feel, but it's likely not happening, though.

Because simulationism fails as a game design argument.

They could jump at their current speed just as well if unglued. Certainly Dart, Crasher and Scorcher, maybe Rav.

There's also another technical issue that will kill this, and it's as follows:

1) ZK vehicles have suspension animation scripts. If you drive a Slasher upon uneven terrain, you can see its wheels adapt to ground underneath.

2) Said suspension script is written in abominable BOS parlance with awful coding style (tons of two-letter characters).

3) Said suspension script also completely fails at logic in case unit happens to be detached from ground. It will slowly move the model far beneath the physical location of unit. Spending too long in air will make it land [u]underground[u] and then slowly "surface".

Now, were somebody go and fix it and convert scripts to LUS meanwhile...
... simulationism still fails.

MAH NOSE!!! YOU!!!! YOU!!!!!!!

RHINOPHARYNGITIST!

quote: Actually in 94 it is possible to "unglue" ground units from surface, allowing them to jump on ramps, and even to be microed off-cliff.

Used to already be (kinda) possible some time ago, in eigthy-something. I think this portrays one of the effects of that, but I'm not sure.

There even was (maybe still is?) a slideTolerance UnitDef tag to control at what slope units started skidding.

Yes, I certainly got the anticipated response. I am not arguing realism though. I am arguing that the tank factory has no particular role (that I can see). It is just for demolishing fortifications at the moment and that does not seem like much of a role for a factory. I am saying that the factory should be put into a support role with some main battle tanks (goliath and possibly reaper). Then it could be used to screen infantry advances and it would be much more useful in combined arms.

quote: Could we use allowGroundUnitGravity=true for hovers? Please? :)

Better suggestion: allowHoverUnitStrafing. However, it must be noted that both require an engine from the future.

They are a powerful unit, but they seem like the only unit in the factory with a real purpose. The Goliath does not seem to be any better than a Dante, for almost the same cost and the Panther does not appear to counter anything but the Scorcher. Maybe (certainly) my original ideas were a bit extreme (outrageous) but I do think that the tank factory needs to be looked at for a rebalance.

EDIT: And all of this jumping LVs thing, it would be great but as I understand it there are engine limitations that would prohibit it.

quote: Saktoth: Cloakbot the fastest bot factory: Glaive is 3.8 Rocko is 2.2 Zeus/Warrior is 1.7 Kodachi is 3.65 Panther is 3.9 Banither is 2.3 Reaper is 2.45 Goliath is 2.05 Dart is 5.09 Scorcher is 3.7 Slasher is 2.8 Leveler is 2 Ravager is 2.95 The Banisher is both a riot and a skirmisher, and most tank units move faster than role-equivalents and have more range, having a kiting relationship with enemies. Answer: Your perception is wrong. Tanks are faster. Vehicles are even faster again....

There is one thing that makes LVs /tanks much slower then bots after a while: a bot turns 90° almost instantanous while vehicles need to slow down, turn at 1°/minute (feels like, it is a bit faster) and the accelerate again. when the map gets clustered with wrecks and other obstacles bots can cover the same distance much faster then vehicles. I am too lazy to look at the code so I wont suggest any changes here.

YES, please help hover pathing. They can't even get up/down the slightest natural slopes...