berthas are stupid, especially wen noobs have them. our team were winning on a sea based match and we had most of the map. and its really annoying wen someones losing and they resort to porcing and just get some berthas. they automatically win because u cant reach the berthas because there protected by more porc and by anti-nuke. how are u supposed to counter? noobs dont learn all they do is porc, porc and porc and this game isnt about porc, its about expanding and taking territory. there shud be an option to disable certain porc because the game just gets endless and i get bored and frustrated and the noobs win even tho we clearly won sea. and berthas just destroy eveything. also i find it annoying wen people just build singus to make up for lost mexs so they can just porc porc and porc till they win the game.
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I counter berthas with starlight.
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that is a good counter, but starlight counters everything anyway. also its stil incredibly annoying wen u took ages to gain all that ground and its just obliterated and then the match becomes a porc fest.
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why do half the people in this game think its a porcy tower defense game? they all just porc to win, either via berthas or creating porc bit by bit until they reach enemy base and kill it. thats wat many high elo players do too, wen there losing just porc
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I want a good laugh give me a link to that game.
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quote:
why do half the people in this game think its a porcy tower defense game? they all just porc to win, either via berthas or creating porc bit by bit until they reach enemy base and kill it. thats wat many high elo players do too, wen there losing just porc |
They are trying secure land and counter berthas with starlight.
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http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/140482but wolas they lost the land and get it back by porcing there way along. u cant secure land u lost. its too easy to win via porcing
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by the time u have got units to counter there porc they have regained half of land from porcing
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quote:
how are u supposed to counter? |
They wasted 5k metal for each bertha and you probably had more metal income, so it shouldn't be too hard to pwn their porcbase... If it was a sea game, scallop + clam spam might have worked, since bertha wouldn't be able to hit em But i haven't watched the game so I dont know
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That wasn't all Bertha. Your opponents snuck around the back, invested a bit in economy and had some well used Krows. They also never entirely lost sea. Your team held most of the side mexes so did have quite a bit more income during the middle of the game. You had less metal in units though so the income wasn't used efficiently. The early Bertha or two seemed to what they are meant to do while the several Berthas at the end was just a means of ending the game. Anything would work by then. To counter that situation you first have to get in while you are doing ok and secondly make something like a tacnuke sub to snipe the Berthas. Scout them and know what is going on. Raid with hovercraft or heavy amphibs. Take full control of the sea and get some planes.
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It's usually pretty easy: If your enemy invested x metal into something (e.g. porc), then you should be able to spend x metal for a counter (especially if you are ahead). Bonus points if you scouted. In this case: Nuke subs. Creative uses of penetrators and shields. Jammers (!). Bertha alone sucks at killing units, so if they invest that much metal in it they can't have all that many field units, so you can take superiority in air and sea. Then it comes down to killing the porc guarding the bertha, for which penetrators (or tacnukes/emp nukes) should be appropriate. Keep in mind that porc doesn't move, so once you have an opening in their defense line, you should be able to raid. I'd agree that screamer basically kills airgames though. Ain't nobody got time fo feeding them blastwings until they are out of ammo... And i can agree that it requires much more skill to kill porc than to build it.
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I haven't seen the replay, but it's a safe bet to assube that an ultimatum can make cost in 1 shot in super heavy porc (esp if the blast kills some other things) getting an ulti there is hrad only if they used terra, even then a combo you EMP + Quake missiles will open a nice path (renember that quake has huge range, i'm not sure, but maybe it outranges bertha?). If you could have managed to bring an athena there? then you might just humiliate your oppenents by killing a bertha with a flea (imagine the XP the thing will get). In long games porc is basicly suicide if your enemyes know how to use those things. even a bertha of your own might work (since you had more eco, you can make more bertha's)
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The Bertha is actually a problematic unit because it encourages the opposite of good gameplay - Bertha is basically a zero-risk raider that allows you to knock down enemy skirmishers and eco and light defenses that aren't protected by shields and terra. Its use encourages players to focus on tight shielded/terra singu-bases and heavy assault forces and air and shieldballs - the stuff that we already see too much in late-game.
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What am I reading? "we were winning but then they beat us without winning because I dont like how they won! Change the game to fit my strategy!!" It is a rule of warfare that frontlines WILL fortify with time. Thats why they invented mobile warfare in WW2, but this game limits you to a certain area so either win quickly or be prepared to deal with porc. Its that simple. It doesnt matter what you think the game is "about," this game has all kinds of units for all kinds of strategies. For example: scuttles blast apart porc gloriously, jacks can 1v1 almost any defensive building, sumos rip porc up, emp missiles disable shields for tacnukes, artillery counters porc always. People will porc when theyre losing, if it works, then good for them - they have successfully countered your lemming attack strategy. If porc is somehow "not allowed" or what not, then why are half the units in the game porc units, and another quarter porc breakers? Bertha is a well balanced strategic unit, dont cry when you lose to it.
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kmar, there's water in the middle, so no land way for Ultis to go (just look at the map). This makes killing porc on the shore a good deal harder. But it's not impossible.
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I'm going to pitch a flame and say that the problem here is that sea is godawful to begin with.
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jammers make it impossible for the berthas to just pwn everything. Yes, they can still see things that are shooting or building, but now 90% of your stuff is hidden. Put some shields over your big base areas and you should be ok.
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Maruan, this may sound strange, but ulti is amph. Is the problem still there now?
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Ultimatum cannot fire underwater, so I would think no as you have to fully get out of the water in order to fire.
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so what if it can't fire underwater? it's not like you'r going to waste the ulti on porc. That ulti must got straight for the bertha's. If he surives that does he go for porc? NO! he goes for singu and fusions. Then porc? wrong again! he goes fac bashing and com punching. when does he go for porc you ask? it's simple, really: when there is nothing left BUT porc. There is never a point in the game where engaging porc directly will result in you doing good for your team. At best your just got rid of your units, at worst you fed the enemy M and told him that you have nothing left to fight him with. Just to make it clear: the unlti must go for things that are more expensive then 2000M (a bertha, for example) anything else will be a waste, esp porc since you don't acive anything by hurting it (it's kinda made for that)
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