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Lobster - Scallop cheese

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USrankstrikeshadow
4 years ago
Better counters need to be created. Airplanes and Helicopters need to have anti-sub units available either by creating new units or giving existing ones that ability - seeking not just AoE bombing. Submarines need to have about 25% greater range than scallops.

Otherwise scallops need to lose their torpedoes or all units need to lose the ability to fire while tossed or pushed.
+0 / -1


FIrankterve886
4 years ago
Scallops and ducks by design are anti sub because Sea wolfs are a raider unit. Otherwise sea wolfs would beat amphs in raiding 100% of the time as they are already faster.
+0 / -0

AUrankAdminAquanim
4 years ago
(edited 4 years ago)
Given that I have context from an earlier conversation I should point out that sea is not balanced around being played on FrostBiteV2. Narrow water channels inherently favour less mobile unit compositions.
+2 / -0
BRrankManored
4 years ago
(edited 4 years ago)
Ravens can bomb underwater. An anti-sub gunship is an interesting possibility to consider, I think. There might be no need for a new unit, revenants could be given that ability just like raven bombs can penetrate water.
+2 / -0
CArankTarkin
4 years ago
This is one of the only reasons amph can compete against hover, without this, claymores just wack everything.
+0 / -0
USrankstrikeshadow
4 years ago
FIrankterve886 - buildings on land cannot be raided by sea wolves (subs) at all and there's nothing wrong with anti-sub units beating subs, but ship factories have no anti-lob+scallop units to build at all. Further, air units also have no anti-lob+scallop units to build.

@Monored - Ravens cannot bomb underwater unless you use direct fire and that is very inaccurate against all but very slow or immobile units - lobs+scallops are neither.

Either give say the Owl and the Harpy anti-sub ability (many options), give the Claymore better range/speed, and give sea wolves more speed/range or remove fling from the game, which would be a shame as it's a neat and fun mechanic.

CArankTarkin perhaps make Claymores cheaper instead.

As it stands, lobs+scallops are the only effective build path for most sea maps and that is just boring.
+0 / -0

SErankGodde
4 years ago
Sirens counter amphbots pretty reliably until Grizzlies are fielded.
Sirens outrange Scallops, and if they are thrown against the Sirens, they will be bunched up and suffer greatly against the AoE, while the Sirens can move away and start outranging the Scallops again.

Ships easily beat amphs on open water.
However, in more cramped situations, Sirens will suffer against enemy artillery such as Envoys and Lance, and Grizzlies.

https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/888519
In this game, my plan was to make mostly just Scallops, but I found that they would only work in defense as they were too quickly shot down by Sirens, Envoys and Torpedo Launchers.
Throwing them against all that AoE of those units with a Lobster, would have been suicide. They were still a good defense though, as then they would only need to surface to deal with incoming units and could remain underwater safely from artillery the rest of the time.
+0 / -0
AUrankStuff
4 years ago
and gunships already have an anti-sub unit, it's called charon+snitch
+1 / -0
AUrankSmokeDragon
4 years ago
(edited 4 years ago)
why does this topic make me hungry

can we make all the units edible
+6 / -0


USrankShaman
4 years ago
(edited 4 years ago)
Scallops have always been a problem unit in sea. Sea in general is terrible and you've discovered why you should generally avoid playing sea maps in big teams. With only three viable factories instead of 6, sea's selection is very diminished and generally bland. If scallop+lobster "cheese" (it is not a cheese fyi) doesn't beat you, cloak field bullshit will or cloakfield envoy with owl support will.

There is no happy ending to sea games. Only frustration and tedium await.
+1 / -0
BRrankManored
4 years ago
Its true that sea will always come down to 3 factories and mostly perfectly flat terrain, but I still think it could be more interesting if scallops + lobster weren't so dominant.
+1 / -0