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Bug: wreckage in line of fire

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HUrankRhade
5 years ago
Line of fire blocked by wreckage causes direct fire units to stop and do nothing or fire at something else. This happens even when direct attack order is given.

Daggers, force fire:
Top left, direct attack command on solar power plants
I pointed out in game while spectating.
https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/752707

Rippers, attack-move:
About 9min 50s in game time bottom right corner.
https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/755752
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PLrankCatLady
5 years ago
(edited 5 years ago)
Better place to report those seems to be:
https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/issues

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+2 / -0


AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
5 years ago
The forum is fine for reports like this.

Whether a weapon aims through features can be varied during a game by gadgets. The Ripper issue is simply one of deciding when to tell a weapon to take wrecks into account while aiming. Currently, all weapons aim through wrecks when the unit carrying them has an attack ground command. This lets players tell them to fire at wrecks.

The field is open for someone to fill in more detail regarding when a unit should aim through wrecks and when it should not. Changes to the behaviour should avoid harming unit AI (it is easy to improve one use case and break others) and depend on relatively cheap-to-collect data.

The Daggers were not in range. Besides, gauss penetrates wrecks so it would seem impossible for Daggers to suffer from this issue, since they always aim through wrecks. The issue here is that the Daggers could not figure out how to close the distance to their target. They were on the very left edge of the map, which is worrying, because 104-1322 had an off-by-one error that produced broken behaviour at the top and left edges of the map. In lieu of anyone reproducing the issue I will assume that the bug has been fixed and is live in the current engine (104-1333).
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HUrankRhade
5 years ago
I suggest wrecks and (and other destroyable features) should be ignored by default for auto-attack too. Even after constructing thousands of additional pylons for over a decade, i cannot micro, let alone notice it in time. Units get stuck way too much because of this especially on attack-move.
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AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
5 years ago
(edited 5 years ago)
I agree with you, with two caveats.
  • Units with more than around 8s reload time should not fire into wrecks automatically.
  • Any target that is not blocked by a wreck should be prioritised before those that are blocked.

Detecting the second situation is difficult.
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HUrankRhade
5 years ago
I understand, but disagree.

For the second exemtion:
I figured somehow. Then the best solution would be just to move into a new attack position, which I dared not recommend implementing.

For the first exemption:
It may be better to waste shots, than waiting indefinitely. 8 seconds limit may leave Moderators(game unit) helpless.
Mainly direct fire (or low fire arc) units are affected, which have relatively low height. Not a Grizzly or artillery.

In my games, what usually happened is a wreckage resulting from killing the closest of thightly packed units (or a building may be incuded) blocks the rest from being attacked. Destroying the wreckage may not take long, if the unit was destroyed before.

Here is a different example:
A sorcher moving under a reclaimable rock, amphbots unable to attack it. Later an archer somehow managed to push it from it's hiding place. Nevertheless, the player seemed to be confused, wasting time to figure out what to do. It was marked in game by a point labelled ":P".
https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/762020
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AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
5 years ago
Maps should just have features without broken collision volumes. I don't see your new issue motivating a change to wreck targeting.

quote:
It may be better to waste shots, than waiting indefinitely. 8 seconds limit may leave Moderators(game unit) helpless.
We disagree here. I get the feeling that you think we disagree elsewhere, but I cannot determine where that is.

Also consider how this change in behaviour can create other bad behaviours. You may want an AoE weapon to shoot into a wreck blocking that is just in front of an enemy. The issue there is that the same AoE weapon could shoot into a closer wreck and deal damage to your units and no enemy units.
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USrankFafhrd
5 years ago
Well it makes sense you kill something it will still be there until made into rubble or reclaimed .; sometimes that is handy because YOU can take cover from enemy fire behind wreck to heal . Of course arching weapons and d guns or Gauss will go through and weapons with splash damage will still work if you target area.
+0 / -0
HUrankRhade
5 years ago
(edited 5 years ago)
I posted that third replay because it is related to a degree, even if it involved another issue.
My main problem is still what happened in the second replay of my first post. Namely, units may unexpectedly stop, while the player's attention is elsewhere. And my second one is that force fire or set target does not work either on targets behind wrecks.

I understand that my suggestion is far from perfect, but it is easy to implement. Nevertheless, it is just a suggestion, nothing more. I would really like to hear the opinion of other players.


Fafhrd, I do not think you can take cover for too long if your opponent notices it.
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