Sheildbots

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[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng 12 years ago (edited 12 years ago) Just general discussion points. I dont feel like roach belongs in shield-lab. Its dedicated anti-swarm in a lab that already has the best dedicated anti-swarm in ZK, the outlaw. It revolves around ambushing, while the rest of the lab revolves around frontal assault. The shieldlab has a crippling lack of units that can stand up to heavies. reaper and golly are basically a death sentence for shieldbots, ramming into sheildballs and shooting down felons/apsis at point blank - if you disagree, check the modstats. I think it would be great to cut the roach and add something that is good against heavies in its place - I was thinking somthing with a similar gimmick to the SC2 immortal - a sturdy unit with high alpha/low reload/no AOE weapon and a shield that has a ceiling on max damage taken from a projectile. Not only fucking cool thematically, but filling a very real niche. Even fred agrees, lol [GBC]Praetor you know you wanna join blueblend [22:24] [GBC]Praetor awwwwwwwww it started [22:37] [GBC]1v0ry_k1ng sorry buddy [22:37] [GBC]1v0ry_k1ng I've bent enough blue today [22:38] [GBC]Praetor XD [22:38] [GBC]Praetor fair enough [23:30] [GBC]Praetor IK [23:30] [GBC]Praetor i agree with your shield fac post 100% [23:30] [GBC]Praetor so as a favour [23:30] [GBC]Praetor imma not comment [23:30] [GBC]Praetor so its not ignored [23:30] [GBC]Praetor ;D [23:33] [GBC]1v0ry_k1ng you beetch [23:34] [GBC]Praetor well fo' srs [23:34] [GBC]Praetor everything i comment on is like [23:34] [GBC]Praetor PRAETOR POSTED [23:34] [GBC]Praetor IGNORE IT [23:34] [GBC]Praetor its fuckin irritating [23:36] [GBC]1v0ry_k1ng lol [23:36] [GBC]1v0ry_k1ng too much running your boi +0 / -0
[pikts]wolas 12 years ago (edited 12 years ago) For me best antiswarm is warior. When I myself played against shields nor golly nor reaper wasnt something very good against them + they have dirtbag which fucks up heavies pretty bad. +0 / -0
[GBC]Fred 12 years ago curse ye just you watch +0 / -0
Saktoth 12 years ago Roach works great with shieldbots. Dirtbag is the perfect accompaniment, and shields are great at tanking things like defenders so you can sneak the roach in- the larger shield, you can even march it up to just in front of the enemy and just pop the roaches directly on top of them. Mostly though, it allows shieldbots to control territory when mostly their army is all in a single giant ball, and to react to an enemy when they do not have a standing army, which relies heavily on having a critical mass. I agree that it's weird that you have all the big AoE in one factory, there is overlap with outlaw, and the roach is AWFUL at causing collateral damage to shieldbots. But where else would you put it? I can't think of another factory it would be better in. Dirtbag, Rogue and Racketeer are shieldbots response to heavies. Hate to say it again but if we're talking about the context of heavy vs anti-heavy something has gone wrong. These are not real or primary unit classes they are just weight ranges. What does shield lack? Which enemy unit class is it incapable of beating? What role does it lack that makes this the case? Gollie and reaper it can clog, mechs also to a lesser degree. I know this is a really lame solution but it works very well. Crabe, it cannot sit still. Just have a racketeer on it, and it can never use its armor mode. Your shields will allow you to tank it's shots and kill it within short order without the armor bonus. Mostly shieldbot has a problem with Sumo, where you probably have to rely on the rogue. +0 / -0
[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng 12 years ago dirtbag.. bleugh. +0 / -0
BT 12 years ago Sheildbots and cloaky are the two most balanced facs, imho. I never feel out of control and can't find a counter to X when I see it, it is just a matter of time/metal to have it on the front lines. Oh sure maybe it is too much, or my counter is too lowmetal to work well for it, but I always can build SOMETHING that will work at least OK. Spiders, l-veh, tanks, jump, there are at least sometimes I don't feel like I can handle X by myself, or my counter is too high metal and really do need a teammate to build N to help me. +0 / -0
mojjj 12 years ago i have to add that vandal has low dps (as mentioned in other threads). i have no problem with that, but just to mention, 5 vandals could not take down a preci bomer, which did 2 turns right over them... +0 / -0
Anthem 12 years ago Dirtbags should not be a thing. They're like an extra-lame version of Thug shielding. +0 / -0
[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng 12 years ago ^ agreed. they have no answer to incoming heavies besides dirtbag, which is cripplingly lame. I would be game with the actual removal of dirtbag and roach, if they were replaced with something more suited to the factory. +0 / -0
[pikts]wolas 12 years ago Dirtbag is not lame its very unique and does its job really well. +0 / -0
norm0616 12 years ago I'm a little new, but from personal experience dirtbags are really good at controlling the flow of units. It probably works best if you also have spiders, but they seem to be very good at funneling units into a choke or clogging a choke so it takes time to get through. It may not be a fancy solution, but it is a really good way to do some quick terraforming to block against a large force. +0 / -0
Anthem 12 years ago Yes, but so is actual terraform. Dirtbags have the added bonus of costing 20 metal and having a billion HP which is really unfun for the defending player. +0 / -0
Pxtl 12 years ago (edited 12 years ago) Felon's weapon was designed for picking off raiders and light kirmishers, and as such it fails infamously hard in the face of a target that can really tank the damage as it loses its precious shield-energy into this beast of damage-tanking. The only other unit that sports such a hyper-accurate and long-ranged weapon is the infamously weak Slasher. However, the Felon unit-concept would still work fine for an anti-heavy, if it was given a weapon better-suited to the role. Something slower, more powerful, and lower ROF - something that stinks against raiders and lighter units because it either misses or overkills anything short of a Heavy. Maybe even use the Disintegrator weapon for its anti-heavy multihitting effect... or a big Buoy-like slow+damage energy-ball? Add a shield-powered D-gun to the Felon, or a new shield-draining Felonlike anti-heavy unit. And just nerf Dirtbag health. +0 / -0
mojjj 12 years ago felon's weapon is fine as is. dont change it. its concept is unique. +0 / -0
Pxtl 12 years ago I know the Felon's weapon is fine. I'm not talking about changing the Felon, I'm talking about either (a) add a second Felon-like unit, or (b) add a d-gun command to the Felon. +0 / -0
[DE]Rick 12 years ago felon can already deal alot of damage to heavies. It got nice range and when getting enough shield support it will kill them. +0 / -0
BT 12 years ago Yeah, and that is disregarding the damage thugs can do, or the fact that a shield walker can prevent damage from draining the shield ball's shields proper while still allowing a felon to strike. +0 / -0
SinKitty 12 years ago which units have slow: Buoy, Moderator, Outlaw. Shields lack AA, Moderator did well. Shields lack anti-bombs, does Moderator+Thug/Outlaw also well? What I want to say is: * Felon only slows, but requires less charge for it * Make Roach an AT + large-area-(bomb/mine-detonator)/decloaker with[out] slow and/or cloaked while under shield (drain 1 charge/s?) (roach=slow, tick=EMP, skuttle+volverine=DMG) * * Slow snipers and spy-AA-bots would be fun * * slow, de-cloaked skuttles, snipers, bombs and spy-AA-bots would be fun How it would work: * Felon(shieldfelon.lua) slows up to 40% * Drain charge based on the slow damage taken, NOT dealed on targets to make it better vs multi-target. * Slow requires less shield charge, because it is less OP than 666 dps on this range. * Re-target if target is above 40% slow hit bombs more likely. * THEN * Slow Thug(corthud) and Outlaw(armaak) have time to get close. * Outlaw keeps the slow level above 40% so that Felon don't waste charge (or not too often). * Thug deals 38 dps (which is fairly low). * Shields have effectively 2 times recharge vs 50% slowed targets. * Rackeeter hits more likely Maybe when I think about it slow-Felon (and slow-Roach) might make the factory uber-OP. Especially if Roaches can remote-detonate other bombs and decloak Snipers with the slow. +0 / -0
FFC 12 years ago outlaw is cormak +0 / -0
Skasi 12 years ago I don't understand, Kitty. Vandal is AA. Felon is semi-AA and anti-bombs. The only change shieldbots need is an amphib Roach to make up for the AT Tick and jumping Skuttle and to make sea more interesting. +0 / -0

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