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Map: Onyx Cauldron 1.9
 Onyx Cauldron 1.9
Title: MM 2415: 1v1, Rank Singularity
Host: Nobody
Game version: Zero-K v1.6.11.2
Engine version: 104.0.1-287-gf7b0fcc
Battle ID: 639605
Started: 6 years ago
Duration: 26 minutes
Players: 2
Bots: False
Mission: False
Rating: Competitive
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Team 1
Chance of victory: 61.9%

CHrankAdminDeinFreund
Team 2
Chance of victory: 38.1%

USrankRyMarq
Spectators
UAranklamer

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USrankRyMarq
6 years ago
Would seriously like to know what you are even supposed to do to deal with this.
+0 / -0

USrankRyMarq
6 years ago
I have never seen someone play so much like trash then just get away with it because their cheese is so powerful.
+0 / -0

DErankkatastrophe
6 years ago
oh i have....
for example:
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/639534
+0 / -0
FIrankFFC
6 years ago
What is 'this'
+0 / -0

USrankRyMarq
6 years ago
Just terraform mexs. Costs 80 energy and makes them immune to raiding. Much cheaper and easier than plebeian 'defenses'
+0 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
6 years ago
(edited 6 years ago)
quote:
Costs 80 energy

Terraform costs metal.

quote:
what you are even supposed to do to deal with this

1) Deploy symmetrically against factories with no anti-terraform options (and maybe some others). If all else fails, this causes a new terra-cancer meta, which results in a nerf, or in addition of a token anti-TF unit to these factories.


[Spoiler]

Actually i'll add token anti-TF to my ZK wishlist alongside token antisub.


2) If you switch to a new factory to defeat TF, switch to one that is not second worst at beating TF. And then do not use its only anti-tf unit against things which are not tf-mexes.

3) Bring constructors to any territory that's not protected by plebeian defenses, and either tear down the TF, or build plebeian defences and use the terra for yourself.
+1 / -0

USrankkorn
6 years ago
outlaws do a good job of killing things that are protected by terraform.
+0 / -0

USrankRyMarq
6 years ago
The terraform is not expensive, and immune to a number of factories.

Double-cost mexs that are immune to raiding? Of all sorts? And the investment stays if you need to rebuild them somehow.

I feel the only reason they are allowed to maintain this level of power is because terraforming is sufficiently unintuitive that its not widely used.
+0 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
6 years ago
I think i'm going to spam it vs amphs from now on, yeah.
+0 / -0

DErankkatastrophe
6 years ago
ye i don´t know, it is a bit stupid...
+0 / -0

CHrankAdminDeinFreund
6 years ago
(edited 6 years ago)
It also feels a bit stupid that amphs can ignore porc by hiding underwater and burst killing the mexes near the shore. Any other factory would need more than a single duck to deal with 2 Lotus.

This was a direct reaction to seeing amphs, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.
+0 / -0
USrankHun_Tzu
6 years ago
You're chipping away at your credibility by-

jk

Are those speial tactics what would make the rare map good for amph though? Something specifically like Onyx?



P.S. Also - I comment in discord about how people should mex-wall more, and less than 16 hours later, there's a rage thread about it. Coincidence?
+0 / -0


AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
6 years ago
One counter seems to be to bait your opponents Archers into pushing a Duck onto the edge.

More seriously, Archers easily have the AoE to penetrate these walls. Locust can killed terraformed mexes with strafing disabled. Also I feel like the proper name for this tactic is jank, not cheese. To me cheese is some sort of rush.

I dislike Anarchids list, as it has too many terrible counters. If you require a very slow or suicidal unit to defeat terraform then you may as well bring a constructor. Here is my list of somewhat reasonable counters.
  • Cloaky: Reaver.
  • Shield: Dirtbag, Outlaw.
  • Rover: Ripper.
  • Hover: Scalpel, Claymore.
  • Spider: Everything.
  • Jump: Pyro.
  • Tank: Kodachi, Ogre.
  • Amph: Archer.
  • Gunships: Everything.
  • Planes: Bombers.
Many factories rely on a riot, which is not ideal. Dirtbag, Blastwing and Flea are particularly effective as they can sit inside the resulting castle and block the mex. Tank and cloaky constructors are better at infiltrating enemy lines.

quote:
I feel the only reason they are allowed to maintain this level of power is because terraforming is sufficiently unintuitive that its not widely used.
In part, yes, as this sentiment is a corollary of "abuse until nerf". The area-mex UI could be extended to include mexcastles.
+1 / -0

GBrankthe_green_squig
6 years ago
I quite often wall mexes when I'm against cloak. Scythes are a pain. I've never actually thought about them vs amph.

I don't think it was mex walling that was the problem here. Until about the 2/3s point, Rymarq was matching or slightly ahead on metal produced and there was a point he could have walked a Grizzly into Dein's base and possibly crippled or even taken out the Grizzly that Dein was building at the time. That would have been nearly 2K metal wasted and he might even have had the fac and a chunk of eco before Dein's own active Grizzly got back. After that, Dein kept better control of his grizzlies and was able to gradually pick off Rymarq's when they did meet.

The difference in grizzly losses probably accounted for much of the metal advantage Dein was able to pour into his airswap and seal the game.
+0 / -0