From 'Unit that sucks the most' thread. Google would make it fire-while-moving but the script is cob. Jseah says it should have an arcing shot. Pxtl says that it should be better as AA, and to focus on that- high reload cycle.
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I am strongly in favor of it becoming dedicated AA for the following reasons: 1) vehicles already have artillery, via the Wolverine 2) vehicles already have a skirmisher, via the Dominatrix 3) the concept of an mobile, deployable SAM site is cool 4) light vehicles currently have no long-ranged AA and are thus massacred by brawlers
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^I agree if it were to become a pure AA unit If it were to be a pure AA unit, I propose a hacksaw like behavior (like angler's behavior)
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We can always add a new AA vehicle. Possibly even make the Merl track (so can be used at long range to snipe, and to hit air). I think the unit is fairly unique. I actually wish we had more land-air interacting units, but a unit with such low DPS and high RoF is just not good against anything more than fighters. Also the dominatrix sucks other than for 'fun' imo. :/
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Frog changed its mind. Thanks to Skasi! Current ideas: Increase movement speed, increase dps. Personally I think Slashers only fail as AA because of their vulnerability to napalm bombers. A slight weight class increase should work wonders. 125m -> 170m and increasing hp, movement- and reload speed by ~16% is the way to go. (~ total buff of 14.8%, not taking other units into account) Very important information, everyone seems to ignore this, because it's not obvious when looking at the model: Slasher is cheaper than Scorcher and costs just as much as three Darts; it's very very cheap for its size. A slight cost increase would fill a gap in vehs' cost classes. edit: replaced 15%s by 16% for round numbers
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dominatrix is very powerful when used correctly. If it captures a 200m unit on full HP, it has paid for itself. retreat the dominatrix, use the unit. Dominatrix RUINS jumpers. It also brutally hard-counters assault units like jack, cudgel, thug etc
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Haha, 1v0ry is so frikkin' right about Jacks.
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^lol about the jacks anyways, I think that if we were to make slasher into a multi role unit, then it should be able to shoot and move at the same time, otherwise, slasher would be a zk x starcraft unit hybrid.
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That's both against ZK's design goals, marathon. No allrounders, no buffing of weaknesses. The "SC unit hybrid" you talk about (siege tank, I guess?) would be Crabe, which is different enough. No need to worry I think. :)
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I just feel as if the current slasher type is useless. And by the way, by starcraft unit hybrid, I just mean that ALL starcraft units can't move and shoot at the same time (except for diamondback). Starcraft units have to be still in order to shoot just like slasher.
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I have to lamentably agree - converting it into pure AA would fix a lot of problems. Right now my only real use for the darn thing is that I build one early on to pick off jeffies and fleas around my base... and I could probably do that better with a pair of MTs or something. Interdisciplinary units are a fine idea, but ZK needs a serious re-balancing of air and AA for that to ever become viable. Dedicated-AA units are just too powerful compared to conventional units, and firing upon air means having the the accuracy of a riot coupled with the range of a skirm, a dangerous combination against ground. A blanket-nerf of air-armor and AA firepower would allow for things such as the Slasher to exist and eliminate the need for "dedicated" AA a bit... but that would create its own raft of problems, and either way the Slasher would be tricky as hell to balance even as a pure-land unit. Anybody remember the CA days when spamming Samsons was a popular move in flat maps? A horde of Samsons would obliterate everything as soon as it was spotted. Skasi - you're right that the model's size might have a lot to do with perceived uselessness. It's a problem throughout ZK. The Slasher looks bigger than the Jack.
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for the sake of balance, lets just turn slasher into a banisher with no AOE, then balance gunships/air, then rebalance slasher in a few years.
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If the slasher got burst and a higher weight, it would be ok vs air. But it wouldn't be able to beat something like the Brawler, because the brawler is balanced stupidly to be totally immune to land weapons and still tank heaps of AA damage.
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Yeah, a bursty Slasher would be worthless against Brawler, which is an Assault vs. AA, but kites like a Skirmisher against land units. For stylistic reasons I'd prefer a shrunken model and current weight, but if switching it into a higher-cost/higher-power unit would help fix its weaknesses that'd definitely be a help. ... too bad the Leveler and the Banisher couldn't have their models and weapon-types swapped (keep the behavior otherwise the same) - a missile-based Leveler would have good synergy with the Slasher, just to get some more missiles into the air. Then again, the already-unpopular Banisher would be getting a versatility nerf under those circumstances. I just mean that the Tank lab really doesn't need an antiswarmer that doubles as AA when it's got the powerful Copperhead, while Levelers with cylindrical targeting could help the Veh lab's AA problem. But the Banisher has treads, not wheels. Maybe we could just lop the barrel off the Leveler's model and change its cannon into a homing missile, but otherwise keep its stats the same? I mean, it wouldn't fix the Slasher, but it would help the Vehicle lab's AA problem.
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Banisher was meant to be a defense against light units, because heavies have no good riot. It is too weak against reapers, but it could support a reaper to win with some HP left against another reaper. The missile should get less turn rate and be fired more horizontally - it will get worse against air. Slasher should kill at least 1 bomb drone or 1/2 gnat at one shot - if it can't do that, it needs to be up-sized a bit. I would like a defender-like slasher, but it would be too good vs raiders. An arcing shot (like Flail and then turn downward) can delay a missile long enough to enable raiders to do some damage. If the second missile is fired before the first one hit, it would be worse against ground, but stronger vs healthy air targets. For weak air targets use leveler
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>Google would make it fire-while-moving but the script is cob Seriously, this is all we need. We've got a game with 150 units that can move and shoot at the same time, and one unit that can't. That's the only reason the balance is so poor.
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I think thats fine, though it needs to be made more obvious that is deploying and buffed accordingly.
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I've had difference experience with Banishers than you, Pxtl. It's not unpopular. People love to rush them, push and hunt coms with them - sometimes even all these things at once. Yay 1v0ry! All listen to 1v0ry! For once. All Slasher needs is one of those icons above its head while moving. Similar to Crabe's armor- or Anni's need-energy icon.
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Skasi, you mean give slasher an armor bonus when it's sitting still? *Another note on banisher, it works perfectly as AA: http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/61592 (watch my banishers in the begining)
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We know it works well as AA, that's why Pxtl suggested swapping it with Leveler - to give vehs better AA. I don't mean giving Slasher an armor bonus. Currently Crabe gets a little shield icon above its head when sitting still. Solargens get one when closed. Anni and DDM get an energy icon above when not linked to an energy grid of sufficient power. Slasher could get a crossed out attack/fire/projectile icon while moving to indicate its inability to shoot.
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