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Remove anni, ddm, etc?

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13 years ago
In almost every game I have seen/played, many super units are never built. Namely, the Behemoth, the Doomsday Machine, and the Annihilator. The Big Bertha is used slightly more often, but I have seen Starlights used more. It's been a few months since someone last made most superweapons aside from the nuke/antinuke. Could the less-used superweapons be removed and the Costly and remaining Superweapon buildings put in one catagory?
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12 years ago
Why? they all have a place expect maybe Big Bertha and zenith.

Starlights high micro super weapon.

Disco rave party best auto fire supper weapon good at kiiling spam and bases.

Behemoth anti ship battery

Annihilator best anti heavy defence.
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12 years ago
Please don't remove. I like them to be used once and then. They add a flavor to the game. Units that are seldom used can surprise you, foce you to think different.That's nice.

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12 years ago
Bertha definitely has a use. I've seen it used very well at least once in the last month.

The 3 porcy defence structures are rarely used but I don't think they should be removed. I'm pretty sure they have a role and the situation doesn't crop up that often.
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12 years ago
ani and ddm are a bit too expensive to be usefull. That and you need 50 power to active them.
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12 years ago
...dont't hate me for saying this...

I think 0K could do without all the big expansive stuff in general. Everything >2K metal also all turrets other then LLT, MT and HLT (including shields). :S Maybe i must play more multiplayer XD (but i'll love the game anyway :P)

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Skasi
12 years ago
Short:

There's too many static. Currently all of them are nearly the same. Statics need more differences than mobile units because of the lack of the unique factor movement (type, speed, turn rate, acceleration).


Long:

The title immediately got me. I think there's too many defenses and that 1 out of 4 need to be removed and the other defenses abilities redone or merged with the old ones.

Right now most defenses work the same way, there's not nearly as much uniqueness as for mobile units, which is not due to the weapons mounted (tower weapons are just as unique as mobile units weapons), but the fact that towers lack the additional "uniqueness factors" unit speed, movement type, turn rate, weight, etc.

Take LLTs and missile towers: The only differences are range and fire rate.
Stardust and Faraday: Only difference is damage type, hill range bonus (plasma), fire rate and popup ability.
HLT and Pitbull: Only difference is damage type and popup ability.
Anni and DDM: Only difference is popup vs hp, range, hill range bonus and heatrays.

Take mobiles now, Glaive vs Bandit: Acceleration, speed, weight, turn rate, range bonus, techtree. That's more differences than between ANY two statics, even though both units basically have the same role!!
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12 years ago
The solution:
Static defences should be able to walk!!!
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12 years ago
Those defenses are just too expensive and need to be better.
Also grid requirement is too high on many, needing 2 fusions to power.
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12 years ago
The more expensive units are much more usefull in FFA.

(Also, grid to power units is unnecessary feature bloat imho, and has definitely made them less useful than before)
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12 years ago
I think these units need to be better defined in their role.

The DDM, right now, is like 'har har you will NEVER break this point without massive dedicated anti-heavy, go attack somewhere else'. This is actually interesting, especially with the logistical energy requirement. However, despite the fact they're actually insanely powerful, they just dont cover enough area for the cost (esp considering in ZK, there are no true choke points- you always have spiders and jumpers and lots of air). IMO, the DDM could afford to be a cheaper more effective dedicated anti-swarm. Right now, its even effective against huge things like reapers, crabes and sumos. It should be riot against all raiders (incl koda, panther, pyro), skirm swarms and small assualts, like cudgels, thugs, up to ravagers. So basically it should lose damage on its main gun (So its really relying on AoE not DPS), and lose some cost.

The Anni is the same. Its actually one of the cheapest static artillery pieces, but it is also incredible anti-heavy. It needs a more defined role. Either its a way to zap the hell out of mechs and tanks, or its a way to keep artillery from bombarding you. IMO, it should be a mech-zapper and lose range.

The Behemoth is the same. It is artillery and anti-swarm (the worst combo and one we have way too often). It can really mess up packs of light-medium assaults as they move in. It needs to be dedicated artillery (IMO taking over from the Anni), having little to no AoE and somewhat of a random spread, so it prevents the enemy from using mobile artillery against you and from encroaching static defenses into your territory, but not from just bumrushing you.

IMO these units can keep the energy requirement, if they're made better, cheaper, and much more narrowly roled- though i'd like it to be reduced to a single fusion, because there is usually one of those lying around somewhere on the frontline late game (but rarely two, linked). Though i also wouldnt object to the removable of this mechanic.
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12 years ago
I think the heavy statics are fine as they are they just need their cost reduced a little bit and power needs to be reduced to 35 (1 fusion).
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12 years ago
Lucky, the grid requirement was meant to make them more useful by lowering their price but confing them to home base (instead of frontline pushing).

Problem is their price was never reduced enough.

Finish the intended design change.
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12 years ago
We could just remove the energy grid and add slight buffs.
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12 years ago
Nah, reduce cost, that was whole point of adding grid requirement!
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12 years ago
Do you want them to be more common? DDM is quite powerful in that it completely destroys every frontal assault short of a Bantha and this is an ok role, but I wouldn't want it to crop up too often or games would be very porcy. Same with Anni and Behemoth.
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12 years ago
Ddm got so poor range for its cost its outranged by even hammers. It wont take much artilery to bring it down in a reasonable time. 1800 metal + 2 fusions means the other guy can make like 2 tremors for that...or a nice pillager army.

Also a stupid infiltrator can render your ddm useless.

Besides because it covers only a small area you can just go around it easily too.

There so many reasons not to build a ddm. Its simply not cost efficient unless you are vs a nub player who likes to suicide his stuff on you. Ye then it will make cost ofc.
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12 years ago
I think the main issue with building these structures is that they are simply outranged by too many cheap counters to ever be useful, combined with the fact that ZK has the least terrain-dependent gameplay out of anything on the spring engine.

Spiders, jumpbots, and strong air make chokepoints pretty obsolete.

Let's take BA on DSD for example, as most spring players are familiar with the gameplay that has developed on that map. North can build porc on the hills in the north, and south can make porc on the flat section. Each side is narrow enough that a single annihilator set up in the middle of that section is enough to cover the entire section. It's almost impossible to go around like in ZK because:

1)T2 spiders suck in BA. They are very limited even when on hills, and SUCK on flat ground. By comparison, ZK spiders are very strong, even on flat ground. T3 all-terrain in BA is expensive with a 9k metal lab required to even start building them.

2)Bombing in BA is difficult because fighters insta-counter bombers in like 2 shots. By comparison, bombers in ZK can often bomb deep into enemy territory and fly back, fighters chasing them the whole way and barely doing any damage.

3)Jumpbots dont exist at all. The ability for some pyros or a sumo to simply jump over hill can't happen. By comparison, ZK sumos and pyros can simply jump over hills and go into enemy base.

Since none of that stuff can happen in BA, annihilators, doomsdays, and behemoths are much better at what they do without even being more powerful. They can sit there and hold off a section of the map that nothing can pass. It's the TERRAIN that makes BA's superporc weapons so much better than their ZK counterparts - units are forced to assault them head-on instead of just going around them. Think about chickens - annihilators are actually useful in chickens because the dumb chickens will assault them head-on time after time.

Outside of some major, major overhauls to ZK gameplay, the only way I can see to make superporc weapons better is to make them about approximately current cost but without grid requirement. The grid requirement is already a noobtrap to begin with and it makes the towers extremely difficult to place effectively. It also makes them entirely too easy to disable - I saw an annihilator completely shut down because a single wind generator was destroyed, destroying the link to the power supply. If they start getting spammed too much, you can always adjust the cost later.

Conclusion: the best way to make the superporc weapons more useful is to make their placement easier by removing grid requirements. By allowing them to be placed anywhere without a grid link, it removes a chunk of unnecessary logistics and makes the game more accessible to newer players that might not understand the grid or the power requirement. It allows for easier placement in places where spiders or jumpbots normally get a free pass.
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12 years ago
Problem is, if yoiu have too effective defense, its effective for pushing too..

You could build it past midpoint to control hue part of the map efficiently. We would like to avoid sort of turret war with guardians in BA..

The grid requirement was added to make defense only good for defense...

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12 years ago
but simple hammers shouldnt beat a ddm. Its both unrealistic and unbalanced.
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