Light spammy raiders are supposed to counter minotaur but tank doesnt have any raiders. Requiring fac switch into glaive spam is retarded. Pretty sure minotaur wasn't like this before. Another dumb change?

This is also another example of how the attacker is ALWAYS favored now and defensive playstyle is a thing of the past

quote: Why should you be able to reactively counter 3k metal in army coming towards your base with 30 seconds notice?

I was aware of his minotaur army for some time. The cyclops I made was because cyclops was one time the counter to heavy units like this. However cyclops has had a speed nerf among other things, the minotaurs completely ignored it because he knew it couldnt catch up to them. Between my cyclops and the ogres I had I probably had similar army value but the ogres were worthless and the cyclops was too slow and my porc did nothing so it's exactly as I said, minotaur is the only counter to minotaur in this matchup. However that doesn't mean minotaurs would stop minotaurs here, no- the advantage is always with the attacker.

Making a new lab is a significant investment since they are expensive now and its hard to afford that in an even game when you can lose the momentum so quickly and air lab is almost always the best 2nd lab option.

Also yes youre right I should have stopped playing sim city playstyle a long time ago, I've always thought it was inferior to just relying on mobile defence but I do it because its more fun and used to be a viable way to play.

I would like to submit B840895 2 on Red Comet v1.3 as backing to Drone's sentiment.

In my match with Dyth, I honestly believe that time spent making anything that wasn't a minotaur (See 1 emmissary, 1 ogre and 2 cyclops) caused me to lose the game. This is in spite of the fact that I managed to terraform bury his first advance - I still lost anyway, just to demonstrate how bad it is to deviate from mino-monospam.

Later I switched to glaives to try to outnumber the minos but the glaives were easily hit by his retreating minos and were too little too late. I do suspect that they don't serve as a counter anymore. All this at a time where I think Glaives are OP.

What this leads me to believe is that Drone is right, the first player to attack the enemy base (which both can and should do) will win a mino fight. There's no stopping the minos from entering and destroying your base, not with minos, not with anything. Edit: Ok, my terraform kinda helped here but that was very, very lucky positioning and timing on my part. This rarely goes so well.

When I think about what CAN counter mino now, I'm only getting gnat and ultimatum. Are there more? Used to be dominatrix which would have been great here, but that's no longer true either.

So as far as I'm concerned, kodachi/glaives into minos is THE 1v1 ground meta and there is something of a problem here.

quote: In my match with Dyth, I honestly believe that time spent making anything that wasn't a minotaur (See 1 emmissary, 1 ogre and 2 cyclops) caused me to lose the game. This is in spite of the fact that I managed to terraform bury his first advance - I still lost anyway, just to demonstrate how bad it is to deviate from mino-monospam.

Having watched that game, i disagree. Most times when Dyth's Minotaurs met with your blitz-ball they ended up swarmed and stunned and doomed ... except then you would inexplicably retreat rather than finalize the kill. So Minotaurs would escape and come back in bigger numbers right until they hit the critical mass required for not caring about anything except ulti and terraform.

Terraform was absolutely insane.

Raiders only work so long as there are no riots. Doesnt take long to figure that out before both sides stop making raiders and riots altogether. Although in the case of rovers I think people continue to spam ripper all game because its overtuned.

In this game the RPS progression from kodachi to blitz to ogre to minotaur took about 2 minutes lol. Then @Sparkles stuck with minotaur and I foolishly was trying to make ogres work.

I wasnt doing too badly before minotaurs got in my base, com dying isnt the end of the world

im surprised the ogre stage lasted that long though, I bet if we replayed the game it would be quicker to minotaurs

It's good to get second opinions from clearer heads, thanks Anarchid / Huix. Definitely food for thought.

I doubt keeping the Cyclops in base would've helped either. Sparkles could've just fortified his map control and steamroll you later. That said, he also had no reason to engage with a Cyclops that's more than half map away from his base, so meh. Lose lose.

Tank mirrors might be assault spam and first blob to reach the base like you said, considering how Minotaurs are the essential unit without a proper in-fac counter. You can fac swap though, which makes in-fac complaints pretty moot unless you can convincingly point out that switching to any other fac wouldn't help much against Mino spam.

Having done some testing with placeholders I can safely say that this isn't the answer: their lack of "overkill prevention" means they will overlap capture zones and require a good deal of micro to, on average, pin 2 minos. The enemy player can spread their minos. Also, placeholding them does nothing to help in the killing of them. For this reason, I'm ruling this unit out as a good answer.