Raven

So the low and slow diving nerf has put Raven on a reasonable, if not UP, position (behind gunships). The main problem I see now is not that the Raven's power is inappropriate, but that it interacts with the wrong units. I like some interaction of ground units with air, but currently some ground units seem to be better aa than actual aa units. Even a Glaive can skirm diving Ravens.

I preferred Raven as it was some months ago, but there it was op. If Raven is suppposed to be a bomber for static or slow units, this can also be achieved by making it slower and increasing reload time, but diving a little less. This would also keep air starts in 1v1 viable, which is desirable imo. Hacksaw could also be buffed a little bit. Diving a bit is ok, but this extreme diving is annoying me.

If Raven is supposed to be anti static or anti heavy it doens't need diving at all... It was good like 1.5 years ago, when it had slightly homing(?) bomb, but didn't dive at all. Light units could dodge it, heavies couldn't. Like would happen with skirmishers.

But then "Raven is broken, because its bomb shoudln't be dodgeable" policy popped up, and we got melee plaene instead.

But who am I to judge...

Hmmm or maybe make them lose speed while climbing so they spend more time inside enemy territory to get shot on.

The problem I have with slow dive/slow climb is that it makes felons eat ravens by default, when felons are one of the heavies that ravens were a solid counter for. Also, having ravens die to stupid bandits is ridiculous. I support the non-diving-slightly-homing-bomb raven. Gunship monoculture is also unfun.

quote: If Raven is supposed to be anti static or anti heavy it doens't need diving at all... It was good like 1.5 years ago, when it had slightly homing(?) bomb, but didn't dive at all. Light units could dodge it, heavies couldn't. Like would happen with skirmishers. But then "Raven is broken, because its bomb shoudln't be dodgeable" policy popped up, and we got melee plaene instead. But who am I to judge...

Just wrong. Raven bomb never homed. It was faster and predicts the location of its target. It could hit any unit as long as it moved in a straight line. Sufficient deviation or turning would make the bomb miss. Heavies could dodge it, notably the commander. This reduced many games to ping-dependent quicktime events.

The type of dodging was broken. Each Raven only has one projectile and they were commonly used to kill high value targets. The entire game was too sensitive to the outcome of that micro-test. Projectile dodging is a useful mechanic when there is some sort of choice involved (dodge or move straight and fast) and when individual tests don't have game-changing outcomes. Running Glaives at Rockos is good because you get the choice between speed and safety which will be realized with some average amount of damage. Raven has no choice and is very sensitive so it was just wrong.

quote: I preferred Raven as it was some months ago, but there it was op. If Raven is suppposed to be a bomber for static or slow units, this can also be achieved by making it slower and increasing reload time, but diving a little less. This would also keep air starts in 1v1 viable, which is desirable imo. Hacksaw could also be buffed a little bit. Diving a bit is ok, but this extreme diving is annoying me.

Reload time is barely important. A slower Raven still has the quicktime event. Air start viability is not a requirement (air start not viable is not a requirement either).

quote: The problem I have with slow dive/slow climb is that it makes felons eat ravens by default, when felons are one of the heavies that ravens were a solid counter for. Also, having ravens die to stupid bandits is ridiculous. I support the non-diving-slightly-homing-bomb raven. Gunship monoculture is also unfun.

Are Felons OP? Are planes useless vs Shield? Is there a current balance problem here or is it just that a unit is not working like you want it to? Is that general for this thread; Is there a balance problem with Raven or do you all just not like how it feels?

Needs a poll! I'm definately in the 'dislike the feels' camp.

What's the current state of the dive? Are they still slow after they land payload?

Some thoughts:

Raven when not diving seems to work perfectly as intended, Ravens when diving seem to be clumsy in both execution and theme.

They're not a bomber. A bomb that doesn't explode is not a bomb. I don't know the details on the weaponry, but considering it doesn't home or explode, it doesn't seem like there's very much going on that's high tech.
If it's not a bomber, I think there's fertile ground to scrub up a new explanation behind the mechanic. Its current status is 'precision bomber'. It may not be a bomber, but it is hella precise. I think the slow diving should be emphasised as an explanation for its precision on moving targets if it isn't already. It's literally getting into melee range to 'bomb' them.

While we're at it, we can stop pretending it's not a melee plane when diving.

Weapon: mo'fuckin' deathspear
A sharpened steel rod appropriate for both high altitude precision strikes on immobile targets, and injection delivery from pointblank.

Injection delivery: Raven slows descent to maintain a lock on mobile target. On reaching target, deathspear is launched at pointblank with explosive force, which both guarantees maximises damage dealt, and launches raven back into the air away from danger, allowing it to return to rearm.

- The weapon is consistent across both use cases.
- The slow dive is explained.
- The exit is more controlled leaving less to luck.
- The theme is more elegant.
- The mechanic is clearer, as we can do away with accuracy altogether. People will know what they need to do to prevent getting ravened.
- No longer comes down to ping, you get to hit them if you manage to reach them.
- Melee planes are badass.
- Weapon could be related to impaler's, representing the expected recycling of technology on the battlefield. This would represent a different delivery system for an already existent weapon type.

/storm

SnuggleBass isn't that exactly the same as current Raven except with an elongated and harder to see projectile?

But with a melee weapon, why does it have to go home to rearm?

Bomb on a stick?

Rename Roko to Javelin and make it throw spears instead of firing bazooka